Armed Citizen With Gun Does Nothing

[TooBigToFit]

Clearly you've never been to Monroeville Mall.

???

[abner13]

I'm still shocked that the NY Times actually put a positive spin on this.

[RockIsland]

Clearly you've never been to Monroeville Mall.

[Berncly]

Yes, I've been trained with failure drills a few times, although the trainers aren't consistent with that way of training.

Are you trained by a professional or someone in house?
It is possible that current standards are changing with the proliferation of body armor.
But I have never heard of training security guards for head shots.

Police don't shoot to kill, they shoot to stop a threat.
If the threat dies while being stopped that's ok, but the goal is only to stop them.
A follow up shot to the head could be interpreted as murder if the target has no armor or other factors that make a head shot necessary.

I'm not saying it's bad to train for multiple situations, but this is highly unusual for minimally trained people.
The 2 and 1 shooting is usually associated with anti terror guys and other specialized people that train constantly.
You may want to clarify your training and related legalities.

[Emptymag]

That would be a bit difficult, but I think a round to a shoulder or perhaps a thigh would have been a more realistic possibility to incapacitate the knifeman and not kill him. It seems that perhaps there was time to take aim and try either shot, but then again we are all just armchairing it here.

This post... oh my. You should have stopped while you were ahead.

[scruff]

Are you trained by a professional or someone in house?
It is possible that current standards are changing with the proliferation of body armor.
But I have never heard of training security guards for head shots.

Police don't shoot to kill, they shoot to stop a threat.
If the threat dies while being stopped that's ok, but the goal is only to stop them.
A follow up shot to the head could be interpreted as murder if the target has no armor or other factors that make a head shot necessary.

I'm not saying it's bad to train for multiple situations, but this is highly unusual for minimally trained people.
The 2 and 1 shooting is usually associated with anti terror guys and other specialized people that train constantly.
You may want to clarify your training and related legalities.

No, the failure drill really is a thing. Two shots center-of-mass, and then if that didn't stop the threat (body armor, for example), one to the head. I'll bet there's a lot of crossover between LEO and Act 235 firearms training - the Act 235 trainer also being a LEO trainer, or being current or former LEO himself. There shouldn't be much if any difference between LEO, Act 235 and civilian training anyway.

[Berncly]

No, the failure drill really is a thing. Two shots center-of-mass, and then if that didn't stop the threat (body armor, for example), one to the head. I'll bet there's a lot of crossover between LEO and Act 235 firearms training - the Act 235 trainer also being a LEO trainer, or being current or former LEO himself. There shouldn't be much if any difference between LEO, Act 235 and civilian training anyway.

It's possible.
I'm not in the game anymore so I don't know what people are doing these days.
In my experience many years ago, the Act 235 training and the LEO training were completely different animals.

[Walleye Hunter]

No, the failure drill really is a thing. Two shots center-of-mass, and then if that didn't stop the threat (body armor, for example), one to the head. I'll bet there's a lot of crossover between LEO and Act 235 firearms training - the Act 235 trainer also being a LEO trainer, or being current or former LEO himself. There shouldn't be much if any difference between LEO, Act 235 and civilian training anyway.

In a conversation with a LOE, this is precisely how he explained it to me and I figured that it is what he had been taught. Alternatively a shot to the pelvis would stop one in their tracks as well.

[spandexlurch]

Are you trained by a professional or someone in house?
It is possible that current standards are changing with the proliferation of body armor.
But I have never heard of training security guards for head shots.

Police don't shoot to kill, they shoot to stop a threat.
If the threat dies while being stopped that's ok, but the goal is only to stop them.
A follow up shot to the head could be interpreted as murder if the target has no armor or other factors that make a head shot necessary.

I'm not saying it's bad to train for multiple situations, but this is highly unusual for minimally trained people.
The 2 and 1 shooting is usually associated with anti terror guys and other specialized people that train constantly.
You may want to clarify your training and related legalities.

Been trained by both people that are in house ex-police and MOPETC trainers. Most the time it's just the standard ACT-235 qualification style shooting, sometimes they have us do failure drills. I also don't work at a mail riding on of those sweet Segway's, I get to fly a desk in a semi-government building.
desk pilot.jpg

[Berncly]

Been trained by both people that are in house ex-police and MOPETC trainers. Most the time it's just the standard ACT-235 qualification style shooting, sometimes they have us do failure drills. I also don't work at a mail riding on of those sweet Segway's, I get to fly a desk in a semi-government building.

Yeah, Scruff was saying before.
I think the major difference in training is whether it incorporates the Captain Kirk combat roll.
The Segway thing was someone else.