Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #61
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    Default Re: Armed Citizen With Gun Does Nothing

    Quote Originally Posted by marinville View Post
    The common link between the cop and the civilian is that they are both human beings who were in jeopardy of being killed by and armed attacker who had just murdered someone, and both failed to act yet miraculously survived the encounter.

    According to much of what I'm reading here, any dumb shit response is a correct response, if it happens to work. So I guess, the dipshit who got within arms reach of the armed murderer, in order to pepper spray him, was also acting wisely, since it didn't actually get him killed this time.

    Another poster said he would have acted, once the guy made an obvious lunge to attack someone. The problem with that is, by that time the victim is probably fucked, and is also possibly in the line of fire. (Remember that police shooting someone referenced above? The one where the bystander was inadvertently shot by police?) How do you think this would have shaken out if kilnife guy takes a poke at captain pepper spray. Im betting professor paperweight doesn't then shoot the knife from the guys hand before he opens pepper sprays throat.

    What I really want to know is: to the people who are defending this guy's (in)actions, if he had fired on the advancing knife wielder and killed him, would you consider that justified?
    I absolutely think deadly force was justified based on the posts in this thread (still not watching the video). With regard to the fella yielding the gun, we just all react or believe differently in what standard if any needs to be met before we use deadly force. Not everybody is trained, and even when we are trained we can be trained differently or interpret that training differently

    I'm not in favor of Police using non-lethal measures in deadly force incidents. I wish I had the savvy to research how many mentally-ill or downright murderous people using deadly force to resist arrest went on to become productive members of society after being saved by non-lethal devices.

    Just my .02 worth
    Last edited by ExFlyinguy; November 9th, 2018 at 01:29 PM.

  2. #62
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    Default Re: Armed Citizen With Gun Does Nothing

    If a COP had shot that guy dead, this forum would be out with torches and pitchforks.

    (That's how "urgent" it was to shoot the knife guy for those who didn't watch the video)
    You Missed it!LAST GROUP SHOOT of 2018! - Saturday, Oct 20th (link)

  3. #63
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    Default Re: Armed Citizen With Gun Does Nothing

    Quote Originally Posted by Emptymag View Post
    If a COP had shot that guy dead, this forum would be out with torches and pitchforks.

    (That's how "urgent" it was to shoot the knife guy for those who didn't watch the video)
    IMHO- If he had a knife, had just killed someone and was acting aggressive = BANG not zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzap

  4. #64
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    Default Re: Armed Citizen With Gun Does Nothing

    Quote Originally Posted by ExFlyinguy View Post
    IMHO- If he had a knife, had just killed someone and was acting aggressive = BANG not zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzap
    Like you said - you didn't watch the video.
    You Missed it!LAST GROUP SHOOT of 2018! - Saturday, Oct 20th (link)

  5. #65
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    Default Re: Armed Citizen With Gun Does Nothing

    Quote Originally Posted by marinville View Post
    According to much of what I'm reading here, any dumb shit response is a correct response, so long as it happens to work. So I guess, the dipshit who got within arms reach of the armed murderer, in order to pepper spray him, was also acting wisely, since it didn't actually get him killed this time.
    I don't think "any dumb shit response is a correct response, so long as it happens to work". I just don't think CCW guy did anything inherently wrong based on what's visible on video.

    I'll agree, Pepper spray guy pulled a dumb move and got lucky. He willingly walked in front of not one, but two weapons. If things went sideways quick, he could catch a knife or a bullet. Bravado doesn't always equal wisdom.

    What I really want to know is: to the people who are defending this guy's (in)actions, if he had fired on the advancing knife wielder and killed him, would you consider that justified?
    Personally, I don't have enough info to make that judgement. My opinion, on the video alone, is that he had no reason to shoot unless the situation changed (knife guy lunges, or tries to attack someone else). Since we don't see how the engagement between the two started, I can't say one way or another if he ever had justification to shoot or not.

    - Did he initially draw from that distance?
    - Did knife guy threaten him within arms reach, initiating him to draw?
    - Did CCW guy 'get the drop' on knife guy after he killed his GF?

    Without seeing how/when the guy decided to draw his gun, I don't have enough information to make a judgement on justification.

  6. #66
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    Default Re: Armed Citizen With Gun Does Nothing

    Quote Originally Posted by Emptymag View Post
    Like you said - you didn't watch the video.
    Again with the speed of approach. The guy just killed someone. He has a knife in his hand and he is advancing. He does not stop advancing. Only the constant backpedaling keeps them apart. Shooting him was 100% justified... IMO.

  7. #67
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    Default Re: Armed Citizen With Gun Does Nothing

    Quote Originally Posted by Emptymag View Post
    If a COP had shot that guy dead, this forum would be out with torches and pitchforks.

    (That's how "urgent" it was to shoot the knife guy for those who didn't watch the video)

    Lol your probably right.

    Dangerous things are dangerous including situations, that doesn’t mean one should shoot their way out of everything that comes along in life that fits that criteria.

    Knowing when not to shoot is just as or maybe even more important then knowing when to shoot, especially when your just an average serf citizen in a very anti gun city.

  8. #68
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    Default Re: Armed Citizen With Gun Does Nothing

    Quote Originally Posted by marinville View Post
    Again with the speed of approach. The guy just killed someone. He has a knife in his hand and he is advancing. He does not stop advancing. Only the constant backpedaling keeps them apart. Shooting him was 100% justified... IMO.
    I agree and sure most people here do but in this case it wasn’t necessary.

  9. #69
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    Default Re: Armed Citizen With Gun Does Nothing

    There's more info and another video from a different angle here https://komonews.com/news/local/woma...seattle-center

    The perp was obviously distraught over stabbing his GF, "the only person that he loved", and wanted to die. It didn't look like he was out to hurt anyone else. The armed citizen didn't want to shoot him and was thinking in part about the 4-yr old, but had intervened so no one else would get hurt. I can understand his actions if he thought the guy was no longer a threat and didn't want to be goaded into helping the guy commit suicide.

    Quote Originally Posted by marinville View Post
    Again with the speed of approach. The guy just killed someone. He has a knife in his hand and he is advancing. He does not stop advancing. Only the constant backpedaling keeps them apart. Shooting him was 100% justified... IMO.
    Yes of course, 100% justified, but that doesn't make it the right thing, or the only thing, to do.

  10. #70
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    Default Re: Armed Citizen With Gun Does Nothing

    Quote Originally Posted by GunLawyer001 View Post
    The prosecutors in Seattle are not like most of the prosecutors in Pennsylvania. And the media are perfectly capable of seeing a man with a knife but no gun, and writing a headline "unarmed man shot by gunman". Just like they call rioters with clubs and rocks "unarmed". Just like they spread the "hands up, don't shoot" myth.

    Situational awareness includes understanding the legal environment.
    These are sage words from Gun Lawyer. The only reason for any armed citizen in a public place to draw a gun is to protect his own life, or the life of his family. Dropping that hammer in any other situation just isn't worth it. You can be doing the right thing and have your life destroyed the the courts. Confine involvement to calling 911.

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