Red Flag Law Turns Deadly in Glen Bernie Maryland

[j_h_smith]

And Pennsylvania may not be far behind.

That's my concern. My son lives in Conshohocken and I was looking to move somewhere between Lancaster and Oxford. But to be honest, the laws are changing in PA that are reminding me of MD over the last 15 years. I had property picked near Hanover a few years ago, luckily the deal fell through. The wife has a few more years to retire or we'd be moving out of MD now. However, it looks like WV is the only state in the area with a good 2A record. Please PA voters, bring back the PA of my youth.

[OF&U]

Seems to me that PA just passed the same shit or what amounts to the same shit.

Anyway, I'm no legal scholar but I don't see the difference between a ERPO/PFA(Protection from Abuse) order and a search warrant. Both are writs signed by a Judge allowing the seizure of personal property. The PFA/ERPO just has goes beyond and serves as eviction, restraining order etc.

*I'm retired so my knowledge is lacking

What PA just passed is PFA related, and is much more limted as to who can file: has to be family or intimate partner. PA tried to get the Extreme Risk/Red Flag bill (much the same as what happened in MD) but that one got shut down, at least for the moment. Note that HB2060, like MD's Red Flag, is only used to confiscate guns and leaves the (allegedly) dangerous person to wreak whatever havoc is desired with whatever implement is at hand after the police leave with the guns.

The Red Flag bill allows pretty much anybody to claim to the LEO & courts that they don't like guns and you have guns, therefore your guns are automatically guilty and must be gone. Due process be damned in either state. MD's Red Flag specifically exempts the complainant from any legal or other repercussions when the whole thing is found to be a false accusation because someone had an axe to grind, so a spiteful ex-spouse and/or girlfriend (or even the crazy bag lady who lives under the bridge down the street) has free reign to commit perjury. Nothing can be done about it.

So MD and PA now just have slightly different flavors of Michael Bloomberg's bullshit.

[PAwhitetailbowhunter]

https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/ma...oykAZDuYo6fB-g

[JenniferG]

What PA just passed is PFA related, and is much more limted as to who can file: has to be family or intimate partner. PA tried to get the Extreme Risk/Red Flag bill (much the same as what happened in MD) but that one got shut down, at least for the moment. Note that HB2060, like MD's Red Flag, is only used to confiscate guns and leaves the (allegedly) dangerous person to wreak whatever havoc is desired with whatever implement is at hand after the police leave with the guns.

The Red Flag bill allows pretty much anybody to claim to the LEO & courts that they don't like guns and you have guns, therefore your guns are automatically guilty and must be gone. Due process be damned in either state. MD's Red Flag specifically exempts the complainant from any legal or other repercussions when the whole thing is found to be a false accusation because someone had an axe to grind, so a spiteful ex-spouse and/or girlfriend (or even the crazy bag lady who lives under the bridge down the street) has free reign to commit perjury. Nothing can be done about it.

So MD and PA now just have slightly different flavors of Michael Bloomberg's bullshit.

Stay out of Chester County. It has become a blue district hell hole.

[Bang]

......so (complainant) has free reign to commit perjury. Nothing can be done about it.

I think perjury would require the person(s) be under oath in a court setting. Sounds like they are immune re any false statement to police statutes.

Once police have the guns, they will look for reasons to not return them. Bring-backs from WWII will be "unregistered" and subject to destruction.

As time goes by, there will be cases where guns were taken, eventually returned, and the person commits a crime against person(s). That puts the police department in a pickle they will try to avoid in the future. Enough cases like that will devolve into confiscations permanent.

[j_h_smith]

The other thing that hasn't been proofed in court is the HBAR requirement in MD. Those of us who had certain rifles before this law went into affect could keep their firearms, but no transfers can take place after the law was enacted. Some question if the police will return non HBAR rifles since it would in effect be a transfer, thus making the firearm illegal to transfer back to the lawful owner.

Yes, it sounds stupid and is, but this is Maryland and not much makes sense when it come to our firearm laws.

For instance, a Springfield M1A 308 rifle is illegal to transfer, BUT a Springfield M1A 6.8 is perfectly legal to buy, transfer, whatever. Same rifle, different caliber??? Same thing with Arsenal rifles. No 7.62x39 rifles, but any other caliber is perfectly legal in MD. I can go on and on but you get the idea.

[gnbrotz]

The other thing that hasn't been proofed in court is the HBAR requirement in MD. Those of us who had certain rifles before this law went into affect could keep their firearms, but no transfers can take place after the law was enacted. Some question if the police will return non HBAR rifles since it would in effect be a transfer, thus making the firearm illegal to transfer back to the lawful owner.

Yes, it sounds stupid and is, but this is Maryland and not much makes sense when it come to our firearm laws.

For instance, a Springfield M1A 308 rifle is illegal to transfer, BUT a Springfield M1A 6.8 is perfectly legal to buy, transfer, whatever. Same rifle, different caliber??? Same thing with Arsenal rifles. No 7.62x39 rifles, but any other caliber is perfectly legal in MD. I can go on and on but you get the idea.

If the police *taking* something isn't a "transfer", then returning it to the legal owner shouldn't be either. Just another way the gov't fucks you over by defining the same act as 2 different things to suit their purpose.

[mauser]

So now it appears as though simply owning a gun in Maryland is a crime that can be punishable by death, it only takes one person with a hair up their ass to get a person tried, convicted, prosecuted and executed on the spot for doing nothing wrong. This is 2018, not 1958, I'm always armed when I answer the door unless I know who's coming to the door and why, if it's in the wee hours of the morning or late at night and they are pounding instead of knocking you can bet your ass I'll be armed. (It has paid off before even though no shots were fired).
That's a different story about an almost harmless drunk who had a wrong address at 3:30 am.

[Carson]

If the police *taking* something isn't a "transfer", then returning it to the legal owner shouldn't be either. Just another way the gov't fucks you over by defining the same act as 2 different things to suit their purpose.

The issue is when the police “take” a weapon it is not possessed/relagated to a single person. When it is returned it goes back to a single person. Just like when you get a gun back from an FFL that was on consignment or sent in for repair.

[Action Jackson]

It would seem that the police thought 5:15am was a good time to serve an ERPO on a man at his home. He answers the door with a handgun (someone pounding on the door at 5:15am in that area, I'd answer with a handgun too). The police then fight with the man, his handgun discharges not hitting anyone. The police open fire on the man, killing him before the paramedics could arrive.

So much for the Red Flag law saving lives.........

I'm sick to my stomach this morning.

Some disgruntled relative claimed the victim presented a danger. This was enough for the cops to execute an early morning raid.