FFL holder. Selling gun to your self question

[JC Blauvelt]

I have asked several FFL holders this question. Also the State Police PICS. I get different answers. If I want to sell a gun to myself from my bound book. Do I have to PICS check myself ? The PA State Dealer in Firearms license is in my name as an individual. Per PA law this license MUST be in a persons name and can not be in a corporation's name. The business is a corporation. I have been told yes I must PICS Check myself and no you do not since the PA license is in my name. I exempted and have all ready been background checked. I use the PA State license number on the 4473 form in place of the PICS number.

[Gunsnwater]

If you go out of buisiness all the guns are yours, guns are sent to you. I'm thinking they are yours. Don't you have to keep a bound record of all your personal guns? Wouldn't it be justs transferring on the books. Also, the pics check is like two fifty, seems cheap enough. IANAL
You should have a relationship with a lawyer already if your selling guns. Ask him/her.

[WCMG]

I have asked several FFL holders this question. Also the State Police PICS. I get different answers. If I want to sell a gun to myself from my bound book. Do I have to PICS check myself ? The PA State Dealer in Firearms license is in my name as an individual. Per PA law this license MUST be in a persons name and can not be in a corporation's name. The business is a corporation. I have been told yes I must PICS Check myself and no you do not since the PA license is in my name. I exempted and have all ready been background checked. I use the PA State license number on the 4473 form in place of the PICS number.

How can your FFL be a corporation and your PA State Dealer License be an individual? Or am I misreading your question?

[ExFlyinguy]

How can your FFL be a corporation and your PA State Dealer License be an individual? Or am I misreading your question?

^ x2

You're either a sole proprietor or you are not. Never heard of anybody being both

If you are a sole proprietor then the guns are yours = no PICS check / no 4473

If you are a LLC or some other Business entity the guns are the property of the business and that means = yes to 4473 & PICS

*ETA: I stand corrected - see Xringshooter's response below

[Rosco the Iroc]

^ x2

You're either a sole proprietor or you are not. Never heard of anybody being both

If you are a sole proprietor then the guns are yours = no PICS check / no 4473

If you are a LLC or some other Business entity the guns are the property of the business and that means = yes to 4473 & PICS

What he said.

ahh the joy of bring the seller, buyer and calling yourself in to PICS.

[Remington788]

^ x2

You're either a sole proprietor or you are not. Never heard of anybody being both

If you are a sole proprietor then the guns are yours = no PICS check / no 4473

If you are a LLC or some other Business entity the guns are the property of the business and that means = yes to 4473 & PICS

Does not seem all that unreasonable to me.
A doctor has a a license to practice medicine. His office can be a corporate entity, doing all the billing and regulatory stuff, but he is the licensed individual. It seems reasonable that a gun shop would operate the same way.

As far as the OP question, you are looking to move the gun from the status of Inventory into the status of your personal property. I would recommend he does a formal transfer. Keeps the accounting ledgers in better order.

[Xringshooter]

Your PA License to Sell Firearms (which you get from the county Sheriff not the PSP) should have your corporate name as the business name (left side of form) and the name of the head of the corporation in the owners name block (right side of form).

If you are operating as a corporation, even as an LLC, all firearms coming into the business belong to the corporation, not to you - with an exception and I will go into that later. If you want to transfer one from the corporation to yourself, you must fill out a 4473 (and SP4-113 if a handgun or other firearm that must have this form filed with the PSP) and you must do a BGC on yourself.

NOW - If you set up your "corporation" and are operating it as a single member LLC (yes it can be done that way, I have been one for 15 years), then the State of PA considers that type of LLC (single member) as a "disregarded entity" and in the eyes of the Department of Revenue, and the Feds (including the BATFE - I just had my inspection and we went over this extensively as I am a SOT also and they agreed), it is just like being a sole proprietor with benefits (LLC protections). As such, all firearms coming in belong to me (as the single member LLC) and I can legally transfer firearms to my personal collection without any paperwork and BGC (other than making the correct notations in my Bound Book.) All NFA items also belong to me and I can keep and use them without doing a Form 4 as long as I do not dissolve my business. I can actually let my FFL lapse and not renew it or my SOT and the NFA items still belong to me (basically because they belong to the business (who is me) and the business is still active, even if I'm not showing any activity). If I were to decide to close the business, and I wanted to keep the NFA item(s) I would have to do Form 4's for them (as it stands right now) and pay for the tax stamp before I close the business. Or I could sell them to another FFL/SOT.

ALSO, as a single member LLC, you do not have to file the PA Business tax form (RT-101 I think), you file your income from the business on the 1040 Schedule C for the Feds and just add it in to any other income for the State and Local income tax forms. As said, I have been doing this for 15 years and actually filed the PA business tax form for 4 years before the law changed and I was told by the firm that did my taxes that I didn't need to do it anymore.

If you want to PM me with questions I'll try to help. That said, posing these types of questions here on the forum should get you answers from the FFL's that frequent the forum.

[Xringshooter]

...
As far as the OP question, you are looking to move the gun from the status of Inventory into the status of your personal property. I would recommend he does a formal transfer. Keeps the accounting ledgers in better order.

Not necessary, he would make the annotation of the transfer from the business inventory to his personal inventory/collection in his Bound Book (his Acquisition/Disposition book) which is legally all he has to do. Since the Bound Book must be kept until you give up your license, the records are all there. Myself, I would suggest he keep a ledger (or a separate Bound Book) of all the firearms he transfers to himself, just to make it easier to show to a BATFE inspector (and they will ask about this during inspections).

[Roger Kipwell]

Not necessary, he would make the annotation of the transfer from the business inventory to his personal inventory/collection in his Bound Book (his Acquisition/Disposition book) which is legally all he has to do.

When I had an FFL, I was told that I had to mark it as transferred to my private collection in my bound book AND I had to keep a separate record of those guns and how I disposed of them, if and when I disposed of them. Anything that I happened to buy OTC with a 4473 did not need to be logged anywhere.

[Xringshooter]

When I had an FFL, I was told that I had to mark it as transferred to my private collection in my bound book AND I had to keep a separate record of those guns and how I disposed of them, if and when I disposed of them. Anything that I happened to buy OTC with a 4473 did not need to be logged anywhere.

That is correct EXCEPT that you DON'T have to keep a separate record of those guns. It is SUGGESTED by the BATFE that you do so, but it is not a requirement. It does make things easier when you are inspected. Yes, anything bought with you (an FFL) doing a 4473, is just like any non-FFL buying a firearm, no requirements for doing anything (paperwork wise) with it.