Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
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    Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
    (Philadelphia County)
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    Default Re: Game Warden Issue at Shooting Range

    Quote Originally Posted by streaker69 View Post
    There's a reason we have computers, cell phones and radios with 24/7 access to the government databases that contain the information if any particular license is valid or not. While the letter of the law may state that the original license must be presented, that's a relic of a bygone age where we didn't have constant connectivity.

    Your LTCF could be revoked, and you could still be carrying the original card. Does that mean it's still valid?
    You do know the databases and systems are assembled and maintained by the lowest bidder right? And like I mentioned earlier, routine maintenance takes place in the early morning hours. And lately, over weekends.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Luzerne County, Pennsylvania
    (Luzerne County)
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    Default Re: Game Warden Issue at Shooting Range

    Got checked by the WCO and his sidekick at the Suscon Range today. Everyone had their hunting license.

    As for a drivers license, the law says you will have it with you when operating a vehicle. That means when you are driving, you are supposed to have it.....not a copy.....on your person. You also need to show it to the officer when he asks for it. There is even a requirement that the officer can have you sign your name in his presence.

    But, the law also says you can’t be found guilty if cited, if you show up with it at the magistrate within 15 days, or if he gives you a written warning, you bring it to the police station.

    If I can verify you have a DL.....I won’t issue a citation or warning, unless there is something more going on. If I have my MDT up and running, I can pull up your picture to help verify your identity. At this time, it’s pointless for me to issue a citation or written warning unless, as I said, something else is going on.

    Last year, the WCO checked on people at the same range I was at today. They did not have their hunting license, but the WCO was able to verify that they did have a valid hunting license through their system. I overheard him say to make sure they had it with them next time.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    May 2006
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    Luzerne County, Pennsylvania
    (Luzerne County)
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    Default Re: Game Warden Issue at Shooting Range

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lieutenant View Post
    Those were all courtesies. You dont have 15 days to produce it to Law Enforcement. You are required to have ot with you at all times while driving. You have 15 days to produce it to the district magistrate to get put of the ticket without trial.

    Um, yes you do. I can give you a written warning and you have 15 days to produce it, or I can file a citation.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    East Jabip, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: Game Warden Issue at Shooting Range

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve in PA View Post
    Um, yes you do. I can give you a written warning and you have 15 days to produce it, or I can file a citation.
    I wasn't referring to warnings. The statute 1511 doesn't make a differentiation. I'm sure you guys are using electronic filing as are we. Once you hit the send button. The citation is gone.. 15 days don't mean squat. It's already filed.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    In the can, Pennsylvania
    (Montgomery County)
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    Default Re: Game Warden Issue at Shooting Range

    Quote Originally Posted by streaker69 View Post
    There's a reason we have computers, cell phones and radios with 24/7 access to the government databases that contain the information if any particular license is valid or not. While the letter of the law may state that the original license must be presented, that's a relic of a bygone age where we didn't have constant connectivity.

    Your LTCF could be revoked, and you could still be carrying the original card. Does that mean it's still valid?
    "We don't have up-link, we can't confirm that..."
    How can you have any cookies if you don't drink your milk?

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    East Jabip, Pennsylvania
    Posts
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    Default Re: Game Warden Issue at Shooting Range

    Quote Originally Posted by streaker69 View Post
    There's a reason we have computers, cell phones and radios with 24/7 access to the government databases that contain the information if any particular license is valid or not. While the letter of the law may state that the original license must be presented, that's a relic of a bygone age where we didn't have constant connectivity.

    Your LTCF could be revoked, and you could still be carrying the original card. Does that mean it's still valid?
    Omg...if you real puter people saw the shit we worked with you'd fucking die laughing or at least hemorrhage for a good while.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    127.0.0.1, Pennsylvania
    (Lancaster County)
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    Default Re: Game Warden Issue at Shooting Range

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lieutenant View Post
    Omg...if you real puter people saw the shit we worked with you'd fucking die laughing or at least hemorrhage for a good while.
    But yet, somehow anytime you're handed an LTCF you're capable of calling it in to see if it's valid, instead of just trusting what's on the card, right?
    Rules are written in the stone,
    Break the rules and you get no bones,
    all you get is ridicule, laughter,
    and a trip to the house of pain.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    up out back, Pennsylvania
    (Berks County)
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    Default Re: Game Warden Issue at Shooting Range

    They can't trust using the computer to check on a license, but it seems to be God when they check serial #s against the ROS.
    Hmmm...

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    (Allegheny County)
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    Default Re: Game Warden Issue at Shooting Range

    Quote Originally Posted by stevel610 View Post
    Looking for opinions.
    Paying $120/year for dues to the range I haven’t been to in three years beats shooting for “free” at a government run facility.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Gouldsboro, Pennsylvania
    (Wayne County)
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    56
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    Default Re: Game Warden Issue at Shooting Range

    Quote Originally Posted by stevel610 View Post
    Thanks for your reply.

    This goes to the heart of my post. Until a couple years ago you didn't need a license to use the range. The purpose of requiring a license is to ensure you have helped support funding range operations (which I support btw), and is the reason you can just buy the range use permit online if you are not a hunter. There is no particular reason that a license is needed on the range except to show that you have paid a fee to help fund the operations, which a copy does. In fact, I provided evidence of having paid the fee to the satisfaction of the Game Warden, which he acknowledged.

    With hunting, there are several regulations regarding what is being hunted, appropriate weapons / ammunition, having completed Hunter's a Safety Course for those to whom it applies, etc. Most of this is not applicable for a trip to the range, and that which does apply, is determined by witnessing the shooter such as not shooting buckshot, not the license.

    [[/I]
    I'm not disagreeing with you one bit. But the long an short of it is that you were in violation of the statutory language.

    Now there are several scenarios that could play out. 1. You get a warning and are allowed to continue. 2. You get cited and fined for a voiolation. Or 3. You get a warning, but are not allowed to continue to shoot.

    The WCO used discretion and didn't take this to the extreme of issuing a fine, although he could have. I see it as he split the difference between the two extremes in order to reinforce the requirements without being overly heavy-handed. Does it make sense in a perfect world? Not really. But there are valid reasons why PGC requires proof of having skin in the game to use the ranges. Visit any of the ranges on the Plateau and you'll soon understand it intimately.
    Sed ego sum homo indomitus

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