Loaded firearms in vehicles.

[streaker69]

Company made the guards fill the fire extinguishers at work, total disaster. Clogged hoses, ansul everywhere, no Co2. You probably have time to roast a pig. Just a bad metaphor. I hope nobody here is pushing for no loaded guns in cars. Haven’t we given enough rights away?

Well, if we would have already had a law about no loaded guns in cars, maybe my neighbor wouldn't have accidentally shot himself with his deer rifle.

[Ret-Fed]

Well, if we would have already had a law about no loaded guns in cars, maybe my neighbor wouldn't have accidentally shot himself with his deer rifle.

Sounds to me like your neighbor was in violation of Title 34, Section 2503.

[Carnes]

Actually, it's more like leaving the pin in a fire extinguisher until you need it. Sure, it's possible to imagine a scenario where you'd only have 1 hand available to put out a fire, but everybody leaves the pin in anyway.

I can load an empty gun, or chamber a round in an un-chambered gun, in about 20 minutes less than it would take you to fill an empty fire extinguisher.

Geeze! Really!?

You, of all people, saying crap like this, in public, with your name attached to it. What do you hope to gain from it?

You do, and have done, a lot of really good things for firearm owners. And, it takes ten "atta-boys" to make up for one "oh-shit."

Please stop promoting the notion that firearm owners should carry empty guns. (Or anything remotely close to that idea)

Yes, the 'empty fire extinguisher' analogy was clearly flawed. But, to rebut that with an equally flawed argument suggesting that having an empty gun is like having the pin in a fire extinguisher is absurd. At best, a 'loaded' fire extinguisher with a safety pin inserted could be compared to a loaded firearm with the safety on. Even then, that doesn't account for notions regarding having a holstered weapon/extinguisher, and numerous other factors.

Geeze!

Maybe it was a joke that I missed. If so, I apologize, please disregard.

[GunLawyer001]

Geeze! Really!?

You, of all people, saying crap like this, in public, with your name attached to it. What do you hope to gain from it?

You do, and have done, a lot of really good things for firearm owners. And, it takes ten "atta-boys" to make up for one "oh-shit."

Please stop promoting the notion that firearm owners should carry empty guns. (Or anything remotely close to that idea)

Yes, the 'empty fire extinguisher' analogy was clearly flawed. But, to rebut that with an equally flawed argument suggesting that having an empty gun is like having the pin in a fire extinguisher is absurd. At best, a 'loaded' fire extinguisher with a safety pin inserted could be compared to a loaded firearm with the safety on. Even then, that doesn't account for notions regarding having a holstered weapon/extinguisher, and numerous other factors.

Geeze!

Maybe it was a joke that I missed. If so, I apologize, please disregard.

You need to look into tolerance for opposing views, it would look better on you.

Also, a gun with a loaded magazine is not an "empty gun", in fact it counts as "loaded" for purposes of 18 PaCS 6102.

In practice, carrying a gun in a car without an LTCF (or a long gun with an LTCF) requires you (among other things) to have it actually "empty", no rounds in the gun, no rounds in a magazine in the same compartment.

Practically speaking, a pistol with a loaded magazine and an empty chamber is more useful than a combat knife in a sheath. The people who say "an unchambered pistol is as useless as a brick" are welcome to engage in a duel with themselves holding a brick and their opponent carrying a 1911 with empty chamber and loaded mag. Guess who wins that one.

There's room for divergent views among adults. If you carry 24/7 for 50 years, at Walmart and the doctor's office and pumping gas and mowing your lawn and watching TV and using the toilet and getting into your car, the odds that you will someday have an ND are about the same as you needing to defend your life, and greater than the odds that you will need to do so without the time or ability to chamber a round.

I don't dismiss the possibility that you may be attacked by an assailant who grabs your left arm and you'll have to draw and shoot one-handed with your right. Of course, if he grabs your right arm you're still fucked even with a chambered round. And if 2 attackers grab both your arms, you'd better have brought an armed buddy. Maybe the safest plan is to always carry it in your hand, safety off, hammer back, just to shave that extra 0.1 second off your response time.

I also don't dismiss the fact that EVERY reported ND involves a chambered gun, 100% of them. You have zero risk of an ND if you have no round chambered (unless you carry a MAC-10, and maybe you should.) You can't dismiss the reality of the relative risks without looking like a fool, so let's drop the pretense of holding the moral and intellectual high ground, if you're willing to create a higher risk of accidentally shooting your kid in the face, just to maximize your chances in that hypothetical gunfight under the worst case scenario.

Life is complex, it's about more than being ready for a surprise gunfight on a moment's notice.

If you were kidding about this, if you are sophisticated enough to grasp the concept of balancing multiple risks over long time periods, then I apologize.

[Bang]

There is one upside to an empty chamber. If someone takes the gun off of you with intent to shoot you with it, you're gonna live a little longer.

[marinville]

Nevermind all those NDs that came about because the person was sure his gun was unloaded. Imagine the surprise when the deliberately pulled trigger results in a flying bullet. Oopsies. Such is the mentality of the man who carries on an empty chamber. "Well of course my chamber is empty. See? *BANG!"

[Statkowski]

Yes, the 'empty fire extinguisher' analogy was clearly flawed. But, to rebut that with an equally flawed argument suggesting that having an empty gun is like having the pin in a fire extinguisher is absurd. At best, a 'loaded' fire extinguisher with a safety pin inserted could be compared to a loaded firearm with the safety on. Even then, that doesn't account for notions regarding having a holstered weapon/extinguisher, and numerous other factors.

Now you've got me wondering - where can I get a holster for my portable fire extinguisher? Can't find anything on Amazon.

[:-)]

Now you've got me wondering - where can I get a holster for my portable fire extinguisher? Can't find anything on Amazon.

You can mod one of these http://www.ruggedridge.com/sport-bar...-13305-21.html.

LOL... Yes the 'empty fire extinguisher' analogy was flawed, because it's a fire extinguisher.

I can see not having a round in the chamber, that's how some people carry.
But I have seen "unloaded" guns go bang more then once and gun shops have seen rounds in chambers of unloaded guns many times. It only takes one mistake.

[Parrisk]

I like to compare an carrying an in-chambered weapon to driving around without a seatbelt and thinking
"Well if I am going to crash I will have time before impact to properly put my seatbelt on"

[GunLawyer001]

I like to compare an carrying an in-chambered weapon to driving around without a seatbelt and thinking
"Well if I am going to crash I will have time before impact to properly put my seatbelt on"

The closer seat belt analogy would be to hear some folks say "I've read about people driving into lakes, and if they hadn't been wearing their seat belts they could have gotten out of the car before they drowned. So the safest play is to never wear a seat belt so that I won't drown if I drive into deep water."

Yes, it decreases your chances of not drowning if you drive into a lake. It also increases your chances of dying in one of the much more common car crashes.