Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
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    North of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    (Beaver County)
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    Default Anybody With Experience

    I've been considering various Title 2 items for awhile but kept putting it off because the "hassle". I was really hoping that the Gun Control Act would at least be amended and remove suppressors and SBR's from the fees, paperwork and WAIT times!! The wait times and the extra paperwork are my biggest objections. I don't think that is going to ever happen now so I've been really trying to figure out my best road to take. I've already decided that a trust is better then individual for me and my family situation. I have spoken to a couple local lawyers and was quoted "around $500" to do the trust. Of course I've also looked online and found various trust(s) available some of which even I can see flaws with. I did stumble across a website called The Trust Shop. It all seems very good/legitimate and they responded to my questions via e-mail very fast.

    Is anybody familiar with this company? Have you used them or know anybody that has?
    If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    State College, Pennsylvania
    (Centre County)
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    Default Re: Anybody With Experience

    Not familiar with the Trust Shop but I know many people who have used the trust people that Silencerco recommends and also the company called 199 Trust. Both are well recommended and their trusts have already been shown to be perfectly legal.

    That said, I am an FFL/SOT and would like to know why you think a trust would be best? The only reason I would recommend a trust is if you have people that you want to be able to take the NFA item and use it without you being around (for example - a grown son taking the suppressor to go hunting in Wyoming while you are in PA). If you are worried about what happens to the NFA item should something bad happen to you (you die) then that is not a reason for a trust (although it does make things a bit easier). If you have a will, the person named in the will to get the NFA item just has to contact their local FFL/SOT and they will do the paperwork for a tax free transfer. If no one is named in the will, the heir to the estate can do the same thing, tax free transfer through a FFL/SOT.

    Be advised, with a trust now, everyone named in the trust must supply fingerprints and a ATF form and undergo a background check. This adds about 2-3 extra months to get the Form 1 or Form 4 approved.
    Ron USAF Ret E-8 FFL01/SOT3 NRA Benefactor Member

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
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    North of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    (Beaver County)
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    Default Re: Anybody With Experience

    Quote Originally Posted by Xringshooter View Post
    Not familiar with the Trust Shop but I know many people who have used the trust people that Silencerco recommends and also the company called 199 Trust. Both are well recommended and their trusts have already been shown to be perfectly legal.

    That said, I am an FFL/SOT and would like to know why you think a trust would be best? The only reason I would recommend a trust is if you have people that you want to be able to take the NFA item and use it without you being around (for example - a grown son taking the suppressor to go hunting in Wyoming while you are in PA). If you are worried about what happens to the NFA item should something bad happen to you (you die) then that is not a reason for a trust (although it does make things a bit easier). If you have a will, the person named in the will to get the NFA item just has to contact their local FFL/SOT and they will do the paperwork for a tax free transfer. If no one is named in the will, the heir to the estate can do the same thing, tax free transfer through a FFL/SOT.

    Be advised, with a trust now, everyone named in the trust must supply fingerprints and a ATF form and undergo a background check. This adds about 2-3 extra months to get the Form 1 or Form 4 approved.
    Thanks for your reply. The most important reason for a trust over individual for myself is the ability for my kids and wife (if she wanted to) to use any of the NFA items when I'm not present. Reason 2 is my wife has access to the safe(s) where NFA item would be stored. I'm not certain that ATF or any law enforcement would not prosecute TODAY but down the road I'm not so certain if anybody other then individual had access then technically the law would be broken and ten years and convicted felon are huge concern. Reason 3 is with "red flag" laws popping up across the country if any accusations would ever be filed against an individual then ALL NFA items are immediently confiscated and destroyed before you even get your day in court (the way I understand things). With a trust the other co-trustees keep control. I do understand the more people listed as co-trustee have same requirements and will involve more time in the approval process.

    The entire process seems to be major PITA, time consuming way to discourage citizens to not exercise our rights. I just don't see it getting any easier or cheaper and I should have done years ago ... I'm just going to bite the bullet and get it done now so I'm not saying the same thing in a year or two years or ten years!
    If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    State College, Pennsylvania
    (Centre County)
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    Default Re: Anybody With Experience

    Your first reason would be the main reason that I would tell someone to use a trust for their NFA item. As for the "non-trustee" having access to the safe where the NFA item is stored that is a non issue (unless she were a prohibited person). I have never heard of a person getting prosecuted for that reason. As for your 3rd reason, I have never heard of the ATF destroying any legal item just because it has been confiscated by them. It's one thing for an illegal, non registered NFA item to be destroyed but if a legally owned and registered NFA item were to be confiscated during an investigation, it is treated as a piece off evidence and nothing happens to it until the issue is finalized in the court system. Only then would an item be destroyed if it is found to be illegal in some form or fashion. If the defendent wins his case, all his NFA items, by law, must be returned to him.

    Yes the process is a PITA but there is a bill in congress (moving VERY slowly) to take suppressors out from under the regulations that deal with NFA items. The people pushing it are using the liberals words against them ("we - the USA, should be more like Europe"). Well, in Europe it is considered rude to shoot without a suppressor on a rifle and you can go to just about any hardware store or sporting goods store , plunk down your money and walk out with a suppressor. That is what the bill will provide for, treating a suppressor for what it is - a firearm accessory, not more, no less. The libs can't even cite crime statistics to prove they need to be controlled. Suppressor use in crimes is so miniscule it can't be used to prove anything other than they should not be controlled by the BATFE.
    Ron USAF Ret E-8 FFL01/SOT3 NRA Benefactor Member

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Bucks County, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: Anybody With Experience

    I used NFA Lawyers. $99. I have had 4 SBR's on Form 1's approved with no issues and another one currently in the pipeline.

    Last one came back approved in 116 days so don't believe the hype that a trust adds several months over an individual submission.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    West Alexander, Pennsylvania
    (Washington County)
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    Default Re: Anybody With Experience

    If you had to do the paperwork by yourself, yes, it would be a pain in the ass, but your local FFL/SOT might do all the paperwork for you for a nominal fee and all you have to do is get fingerprinted and photographed, and some FFL/SOT do that too in the shop. Normally when we sell an NFA item, customer hands us fingerprint cards, passport photos, signs their name, we help them with the form, and done. Takes 15 minutes normally. Our latest Form 4 for an individual for a machine gun was processed and approved in just over 5 months.

    Check with your local FFL/SOT to see if they help you with the paperwork and if so, it's a pretty easy process.
    Washington County Machine Guns & Tactical Range (CMP Affliated Club) -- Specializing in Bachelor parties with 50+ machine guns including M2HB, M249 SAW, M1919, and M60.
    Machine Gun Rentals is closing for the season on November 3rd. The Tactical Range is open 365 for members.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Palmyra, Pennsylvania
    (Lebanon County)
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    Default Re: Anybody With Experience

    Info above is correct on the silencerco recommendation.

    FYI form 1 usually gets approved faster than a form 4 as of late, May want to send a few in at once since it’s less painful of a wait

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