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  1. #261
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    Default Re: Florida parking lot shooting: Should stand your ground laws apply to cases like t

    Loud bastard children...sounds like somebody is really unhappy at how this case is going.
    There are no pacts between lions and men.

  2. #262
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    Default Re: Florida parking lot shooting: Should stand your ground laws apply to cases like t

    https://www.tampabay.com/news/crime/...-manslaughter/

    We talked to jurors who found Michael Drejka guilty of manslaughter
    The verdict came down to the surveillance video that captured the shooting, they said.


    The video recording in the fatal shooting by Michael Drejka, center, played a key role in his conviction on a charge of manslaughter.
    Surveillance video in the shooting death of Markeis McGlockton last summer fueled community outrage and national headlines.

    The footage was cited in an arrest warrant charging McGlockton’s shooter, Michael Drejka, with manslaughter.

    Now, it appears the video also played a major role in how the jurors and three alternates in Drejka’s manslaughter trial weighed the case against him.

    Jurors who have spoken publicly since Drejka’s conviction Friday said they arrived at a guilty verdict after watching, again and again, the grainy black and white figures move across the screen.

    “That looped video we watched at least two or three hundred times," juror James Ryan told the Tampa Bay Times this week.

    Ryan was referring to a version of the video that automatically restarted once it ended.

    It showed an 11 second span of time — McGlockton, 28, walking out of the Circle A Food Store, shoving Drejka to the ground in the parking lot, and Drejka pulling his .40-caliber Glock handgun and shooting McGlockton.

    The jury didn’t end up reviewing a slow-motion version of the video, Ryan said, convinced by an expert witness for the defense that it wouldn’t present a fair portrayal of what Drejka perceived in real time.

    During their 6½ hours of deliberations, jurors also returned to Drejka’s taped interview with two Pinellas County Sheriff’s Office detectives. Drejka didn’t testify in court.

    Ryan compared what Drejka said to the video, and some things just didn’t line up, he said. For example, Drejka told detectives he saw McGlockton step forward, but in the video, he moves back.

    “I had a hard time seeing what he said he saw,” said Ryan, 46, who lives in Seminole and works in information technology.

    Within the first 45 minutes to an hour of deliberations, he said, the jurors took a first vote.

    The room was split, but Ryan declined to say who voted which way or how many, speaking only about himself. He voted guilty, he said, but as he combed back through his 25 pages of notes from the three-day trial, he kept an open mind.

    He said he sympathized with Drejka’s fear that he would be attacked again after the shove and understood why Drejka pulled out his gun.

    But "did I feel it was necessary for him to pull the trigger? Absolutely not.”

    Ryan’s comments echo those of other jurors and alternates who have spoken out since the trial, including jury foreman Timothy Kleinman.

    “He (Drejka) had time to think, ‘Do I really have to kill this man?’" Kleinman told , who spoke to WFTS-Ch. 28 on Sunday. "And no, he didn’t, but he chose to.”

    Kleinman added: “I think simply drawing the gun would have been enough. At that point Mr. Drejka had the upper hand."

    He and another juror were initially leaning toward acquittal, he told the station.

    At one point, about five hours into deliberations, Kleinman sent a question to Pinellas-Pasco Circuit Judge Joseph Bulone asking for clarification on a section of the jury instructions regarding “reasonable doubt” as it pertains to self defense.

    Bulone said he couldn’t do much beyond re-read the instructions.

    The wording stumped the panel, Ryan told the Times. But hearing Bulone read it out loud cleared things up for him.

    “Some of the key words of that paragraph, the way he (Bulone) read it helped me understand what it meant,” Ryan said.

    Two of the three alternate jurors also spoke about their thoughts, saying they would have convicted Drejka.

    All of them sat through the whole trial not knowing they were alternates. They were only told Friday before the six-member jury headed into deliberations without them.

    “It really came down to ... the fact that once the gun was drawn, he, the victim, retreated,” alternate juror Edie Clator told the Times. "The defendant had enough time to make the decision that once he saw the victim retreating, that he did not have to pull the trigger.”

    Keith Booe, another alternate, told reporters he was focused on the pause between when Drejka hit the ground and when he pulled his weapon and fired.

    “I think he had the opportunity not to kill him,” Booe said.

    The July 19, 2018, shooting arose from an argument over a handicap-reserved parking space at the Circle A market on Sunset Point Road.

    Drejka approached McGlockton’s girlfriend, Britany Jacobs, who had parked in the spot with no placard. The two started arguing while McGlockton was in the store with his 5-year-old son. He caught wind of the brewing argument from a witness and left the store.

    McGlockton, who is black, shoved Drejka to the ground. Drejka, who is white, shot him once in the chest. He told detectives he was afraid of further attack.

    The closely watched case made national headlines after Sheriff Bob Gualtieri initially declined to arrest Drejka, citing Florida’s stand your ground law.

    The decision sparked renewed debate about self-defense and race, reminiscent of the 2012 shooting of African American teenager Trayvon Martin by George Zimmerman, a white Hispanic. An all-white jury acquitted Zimmerman.

    None of the Drejka jurors were black. Drejka’s defense attorneys successfully blocked a black woman from making it onto the jury, despite an objection by the state that they were only striking her because of her race.

    During jury selection, prosecutor Scott Rosenwasser asked prospective jurors if they could still be fair and impartial knowing the victim was black and the shooter is white.

    Ryan disclosed that, as an Asian man, he’s struggled with racism in the past. But that didn’t play a role in his assessment of the case, he said. There was no evidence presented at trial that the shooting was racially motivated.

    “Race was never a factor during the trial,” Ryan said.

    Clator, the alternate juror, said she was struck by testimony from expert witnesses for both the state and the defense regarding the drug MDMA found in McGlockton’s system during the autopsy. The state expert described the drug, better known as ecstasy, as a “love drug." But the defense expert said it can cause aggression consistent with McGlockton’s actions that day.

    “It was just kind of weird in seeing how they tried to put a spin, a total different spin on something," said Clator, 55, who lives in St. Petersburg and works in corporate travel. The presence of the drug didn’t make a difference in her assessment of the case, she said.

    The jurors all called the case tragic, saying a number of poor decisions led up to McGlockton’s shooting. But ultimately, they were concerned only with whether the fatal shot was necessary.

    “It’s horrible for that family," Clator said, "but that can’t be what you base it on, so that’s what I had to keep saying in my mind as it went along.”

  3. #263
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    Default Re: Florida parking lot shooting: Should stand your ground laws apply to cases like t

    Quote Originally Posted by internet troll View Post
    https://www.tampabay.com/news/crime/...-manslaughter/

    We talked to jurors who found Michael Drejka guilty of manslaughter
    The verdict came down to the surveillance video that captured the shooting, they said.


    The video recording in the fatal shooting by Michael Drejka, center, played a key role in his conviction on a charge of manslaughter.
    Surveillance video in the shooting death of Markeis McGlockton last summer fueled community outrage and national headlines.

    The footage was cited in an arrest warrant charging McGlockton’s shooter, Michael Drejka, with manslaughter.

    Now, it appears the video also played a major role in how the jurors and three alternates in Drejka’s manslaughter trial weighed the case against him.

    Jurors who have spoken publicly since Drejka’s conviction Friday said they arrived at a guilty verdict after watching, again and again, the grainy black and white figures move across the screen.

    “That looped video we watched at least two or three hundred times," juror James Ryan told the Tampa Bay Times this week.

    Ryan was referring to a version of the video that automatically restarted once it ended.

    It showed an 11 second span of time — McGlockton, 28, walking out of the Circle A Food Store, shoving Drejka to the ground in the parking lot, and Drejka pulling his .40-caliber Glock handgun and shooting McGlockton.

    The jury didn’t end up reviewing a slow-motion version of the video, Ryan said, convinced by an expert witness for the defense that it wouldn’t present a fair portrayal of what Drejka perceived in real time.

    During their 6½ hours of deliberations, jurors also returned to Drejka’s taped interview with two Pinellas County Sheriff’s Office detectives. Drejka didn’t testify in court.

    Ryan compared what Drejka said to the video, and some things just didn’t line up, he said. For example, Drejka told detectives he saw McGlockton step forward, but in the video, he moves back.

    “I had a hard time seeing what he said he saw,” said Ryan, 46, who lives in Seminole and works in information technology.

    Within the first 45 minutes to an hour of deliberations, he said, the jurors took a first vote.

    The room was split, but Ryan declined to say who voted which way or how many, speaking only about himself. He voted guilty, he said, but as he combed back through his 25 pages of notes from the three-day trial, he kept an open mind.

    He said he sympathized with Drejka’s fear that he would be attacked again after the shove and understood why Drejka pulled out his gun.

    But "did I feel it was necessary for him to pull the trigger? Absolutely not.”

    Ryan’s comments echo those of other jurors and alternates who have spoken out since the trial, including jury foreman Timothy Kleinman.

    “He (Drejka) had time to think, ‘Do I really have to kill this man?’" Kleinman told , who spoke to WFTS-Ch. 28 on Sunday. "And no, he didn’t, but he chose to.”

    Kleinman added: “I think simply drawing the gun would have been enough. At that point Mr. Drejka had the upper hand."

    He and another juror were initially leaning toward acquittal, he told the station.

    At one point, about five hours into deliberations, Kleinman sent a question to Pinellas-Pasco Circuit Judge Joseph Bulone asking for clarification on a section of the jury instructions regarding “reasonable doubt” as it pertains to self defense.

    Bulone said he couldn’t do much beyond re-read the instructions.

    The wording stumped the panel, Ryan told the Times. But hearing Bulone read it out loud cleared things up for him.

    “Some of the key words of that paragraph, the way he (Bulone) read it helped me understand what it meant,” Ryan said.

    Two of the three alternate jurors also spoke about their thoughts, saying they would have convicted Drejka.

    All of them sat through the whole trial not knowing they were alternates. They were only told Friday before the six-member jury headed into deliberations without them.

    “It really came down to ... the fact that once the gun was drawn, he, the victim, retreated,” alternate juror Edie Clator told the Times. "The defendant had enough time to make the decision that once he saw the victim retreating, that he did not have to pull the trigger.”

    Keith Booe, another alternate, told reporters he was focused on the pause between when Drejka hit the ground and when he pulled his weapon and fired.

    “I think he had the opportunity not to kill him,” Booe said.

    The July 19, 2018, shooting arose from an argument over a handicap-reserved parking space at the Circle A market on Sunset Point Road.

    Drejka approached McGlockton’s girlfriend, Britany Jacobs, who had parked in the spot with no placard. The two started arguing while McGlockton was in the store with his 5-year-old son. He caught wind of the brewing argument from a witness and left the store.

    McGlockton, who is black, shoved Drejka to the ground. Drejka, who is white, shot him once in the chest. He told detectives he was afraid of further attack.

    The closely watched case made national headlines after Sheriff Bob Gualtieri initially declined to arrest Drejka, citing Florida’s stand your ground law.

    The decision sparked renewed debate about self-defense and race, reminiscent of the 2012 shooting of African American teenager Trayvon Martin by George Zimmerman, a white Hispanic. An all-white jury acquitted Zimmerman.

    None of the Drejka jurors were black. Drejka’s defense attorneys successfully blocked a black woman from making it onto the jury, despite an objection by the state that they were only striking her because of her race.

    During jury selection, prosecutor Scott Rosenwasser asked prospective jurors if they could still be fair and impartial knowing the victim was black and the shooter is white.

    Ryan disclosed that, as an Asian man, he’s struggled with racism in the past. But that didn’t play a role in his assessment of the case, he said. There was no evidence presented at trial that the shooting was racially motivated.

    “Race was never a factor during the trial,” Ryan said.

    Clator, the alternate juror, said she was struck by testimony from expert witnesses for both the state and the defense regarding the drug MDMA found in McGlockton’s system during the autopsy. The state expert described the drug, better known as ecstasy, as a “love drug." But the defense expert said it can cause aggression consistent with McGlockton’s actions that day.

    “It was just kind of weird in seeing how they tried to put a spin, a total different spin on something," said Clator, 55, who lives in St. Petersburg and works in corporate travel. The presence of the drug didn’t make a difference in her assessment of the case, she said.

    The jurors all called the case tragic, saying a number of poor decisions led up to McGlockton’s shooting. But ultimately, they were concerned only with whether the fatal shot was necessary.

    “It’s horrible for that family," Clator said, "but that can’t be what you base it on, so that’s what I had to keep saying in my mind as it went along.”
    And now you know why no trial is a slam-dunk for either side. Jurors bring their own prejudices and ignorance with them. Even a bench trial can result in a biased judge seeing what he wants to see (read the Roe v. Wade opinion, for example.)

    The idea that an older man on his back on the ground will suddenly gain full control of the situation against a serial fighter who feels stupidly invulnerable, ignores countless incidents where the guy with the gun doesn't scare the perp at all. Look at all the video incidents of multiple armed cops POINTING THEIR GUNS at a belligerent asshole, and the asshole taunts them anyway.

    They also didn't factor in the reality that most Americans don't get shoved or knocked to the ground very often, if at all, and when you're attacked, your brain functions differently than when you're sitting in a bar discussing hypotheticals.

    Finally, I think this is the Rodney King myth; jurors watch the same event over and over, hundreds of times, and by the time they're through, they can't possibly understand how the people at the scene didn't know how it would end. The jurors know. By viewing #50, it's inevitable. By #100, no reasonable person could see it ending any other way.

    In the trial of the Rodney King cops, the jurors KNEW when King stopped resisting, because he didn't resist any more after Minute X and second Y, so every time the cops hit him after that was unnecessary. Sadly, the cops at the scene didn't have that video, so they didn't know when the last hostile act was the last hostile act. They only knew what had just happened, that King kept refusing orders and kept fighting back.

    The Florida corpse shoved the guy to the ground and then stayed over him. I think a reasonable person, having to live through that JUST ONE TIME would have suspected that the violence was not done. It's the TV generation that lacks critical reasoning skills, that thinks that a story doesn't have to be experienced in linear fashion.
    Attorney Phil Kline, AKA gunlawyer001@gmail.com
    Ce sac n'est pas un jouet.

  4. #264
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    Default Re: Florida parking lot shooting: Should stand your ground laws apply to cases like t

    Quote Originally Posted by GunLawyer001 View Post

    Jurors bring their own prejudices and ignorance with them.
    And a few poofa's agree with the verdict, so what are their prejudices and ignorance?

    While you state that one should voice concern when another is doing something they should know better not to do, but that actually could be a full time job.

    Go to any strip mall, where it is clearly marked NO PARKING FIRE LANE, and guess what, people find it more convenient to park right in front of the door, if someone had not already taken that spot. This is no different than watching drivers busily texting after traffic started moving due to a green light.

    We live in a society where people want convenience, even if it is an inconvenience to others, because this free shit nation has become me, me ,me, ..., and I want to be seen as another sex, and what is wrong with socialism, we can make it work, if it means I can get hand outs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggies Coach View Post
    Cause white people are awesome. Happy now......LOL.

  5. #265
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    Default Re: Florida parking lot shooting: Should stand your ground laws apply to cases like t

    Twenty years for the parking lot cop.
    There are no pacts between lions and men.

  6. #266
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    Default Re: Florida parking lot shooting: Should stand your ground laws apply to cases like t

    Quote Originally Posted by Krichardson View Post
    Twenty years for the parking lot cop.
    Yep

    https://www.foxnews.com/us/florida-m...t-self-defense

    Florida man who claimed self-defense after shooting man over parking spot sentenced

    A Florida man who claimed he fatally shot an unarmed man in self-defense after the two squabbled over a handicapped parking space was sentenced Thursday to 20 years in prison.

    Michael Drejka, 49, was found guilty of manslaughter in August in the death of Markeis McGlockton, a 28-year-old man, in the parking lot of a Clearwater convenience store in July 2018.

    Described by Circuit Court Judge Joseph Bulone as a "wanna-be" police officer and a self-appointed "handicapped parking space monitor," Drejka confronted McGlockton's girlfriend, questioning why she parked in a handicap-reserved parking space without a permit.

    During the initial encounter, McGlocktown was inside the store with his 5-year-old son. When he left the store, he shoved Drejka to the ground, surveillance video showed.

    Drejka then pulled out a Glock .40-caliber handgun and shot McGlockton in the chest. He later told investigators he was in fear of a physical threat to his safety.

    McGlocktown died at a hospital 30 minutes later.

    The shooting brought national attention to Florida's controversial "Stand Your Ground" law, which, since enacted in 2005, established the right for gun owners to apply lethal force to defend themselves against threats regardless of whether it was possible to retreat first.

    inellas County Sheriff Bob Gualtieri initially did not arrest Drejka, saying the controversial law precluded him from doing so. Three weeks passed before Pinellas-Pasco State Attorney Bernie McCabe announced that his office was formally arresting and charging Drejka with manslaughter.

    The case touched on race, given that Drejka was white and McGlocktown was black.

    Drejka on Thursday was sentenced to two decades in prison, with credit for 92 days served, WTVT reported. He faced up to 30 years behind bars.

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