Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
Page 2 of 27 FirstFirst 12345612 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 266
  1. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Middle of PA, Pennsylvania
    Posts
    7,554
    Rep Power
    21474853

    Default Re: Should stand your ground laws apply to cases like this.

    Quote Originally Posted by ideaman View Post
    Guilty. 1. He's not cop. 2. No death or bodily injury threat until he STARTED the conflict.
    Complaining to someone is not starting a physical altercation though. The person who pushed him down started the actual physical confrontation.

    Now whether or not he legitimately feared for his life after being pushed down is the real question to answer whether it was a justified shooting. If the guy who pushed him was holding something he could use as a weapon or shouting "I'm going to kill you right now", maybe he has a case.

    From what we know, that's not the purpose of stand your ground though, but I do not put the full blame on "starting it" on the guy complaining about a parking space. Unless he physically confronted the woman, the other guy started the actual "fight".

    Quote Originally Posted by Berncly View Post
    The shooter is an asshole according to reports, goes around picking fights with people because he's an asshole.
    But being an asshole is not illegal, and all he was doing was standing there arguing with the driver in the handicapped spot.
    Stand your ground is not supposed to apply when the shooter is the aggressor, but in this case he's just an asshole.
    Pretty much this.
    Last edited by alpacaheat; July 20th, 2018 at 12:41 PM.
    Galations 6:9...And let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap, if we do not give up.
    Ashli Babbitt - Patriot

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    On top of a hill, Pennsylvania
    Posts
    9,534
    Rep Power
    21474856

    Default Re: Should stand your ground laws apply to cases like this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Walleye Hunter View Post
    It sounds like a legal shoot in Fladida, just like the Trayvon Martin shooting. Confronting the illegal parker doesn't warrant being assaulted but it's not a pickle I'd get myself into. I have a friend who confronts those people though, I think he's nuts. We just talk about what assholes they are.
    With the Travon Martin case there was an actual fight and physical struggle between two men where one was mounted on top of the other hitting his head into the ground.

    Martin the “victim” was also the aggressor, Where in this case if the parking lot police would have just kept walking there would be no issues.

    Then there’s the fact this isn’t this guys 1st issue in this parking lot and supposedly he discharged rounds the week prior.

    Other then that this is exactly like that.
    Last edited by Hodgie; July 20th, 2018 at 01:02 PM.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Allentown, Pennsylvania
    (Lehigh County)
    Posts
    1,217
    Rep Power
    21474848

    Default Re: Should stand your ground laws apply to cases like this.

    Quote Originally Posted by alpacaheat View Post
    Complaining to someone is not starting a physical altercation though. The person who pushed him down started the actual physical confrontation.

    Now whether or not he legitimately feared for his life after being pushed down is the real question to answer whether it was a justified shooting. If the guy who pushed him was holding something he could use as a weapon or shouting "I'm going to kill you right now", maybe he has a case.

    From what we know, that's not the purpose of stand your ground though, but I do not put the full blame on "starting it" on the guy complaining about a parking space. Unless he physically confronted the woman, the other guy started the actual "fight".



    Pretty much this.
    ^^^ This. ^^^
    --ET

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Delco, Pennsylvania
    (Delaware County)
    Posts
    1,677
    Rep Power
    21474849

    Default Re: Should stand your ground laws apply to cases like this.

    Lot of fail here. Lazy bastard parking in the handicapped spot. Asshole not minding his own business. Physical assault and shooting in response. Things can go downhill quickly.
    Even if no charges are filed. I'm sure there will be a civil suit.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Glen Mills, Pennsylvania
    Posts
    8,604
    Rep Power
    21474857

    Default Re: Should stand your ground laws apply to cases like this.

    They are not filing charges.

    https://www.tampabay.com/news/public...pace_170174041

    No charges in fatal shooting during argument over handicap parking space

    CLEARWATER — Pinellas County Sheriff Bob Gualtieri announced Friday that his agency will not arrest a man deputies say fatally shot another man during an argument over a handicap parking space.

    The incident falls under Florida’s self-defense law known as "stand your ground," the sheriff said during a news conference. The law protects from arrest those in fear of their lives who use force to defend themselves.

    The shooting "is within the bookends of stand your ground and within the bookends of force being justified," the sheriff said, later adding, "I’m not saying I agree with it, but I don’t make that call."

    The agency will forward the case to the State Attorney’s Office to make a final decision, Gualtieri said.

    The decision sprouts from a fight in a convenience store parking lot Thursday afternoon between Michael Drejka, 47, and Markeis McGlockton, 28. According to deputies, Drejka confronted McGlockton’s girlfriend, Britany Jacobs, about parking in a handicap space without a permit.

    McGlockton went up to Drejka and "slammed him to the ground," the sheriff said. Drejka, seconds later while still on the ground, pulled out his gun and shot McGlockton in the chest. The father of three was pronounced dead soon after.

    On Friday before the sheriff’s announcement, Jacobs seemed to have a different opinion.

    "It’s a wrongful death. It’s messed up. Markeis is a good man … He was just protecting us, you know?" Jacobs, 25, said Friday. "And it hurts so bad."

    She broke down in tears.

    McGlockton was her high-school sweetheart, she said. The pair had been together since 2009, when she met him at a friend’s house while attending Dunedin High.

    They stopped at the Circle A food store at 1201 Sunset Point Road on the way home from picking Jacobs up from her job as a certified nursing assistant to grab chips and drinks. Jacobs parked in the handicap spot, she said, because the parking lot was packed.

    The couple’s 4-month-old and 3-year-old were in the car. Their 5-year-old, name after McGlockton, was in the store. After the shooting, when his father walked in and collapsed, the boy witnessed his mother applying pressure to the wound with a T-shirt, Jacobs said.

    "He’s not too good," Jacobs said. "It comes and goes, but he knows he (his father) is dead."

    Drejka could not immediately be reached for comment.

    Jacobs said she’s in the process of hiring a lawyer to see what her options are. She said she wants justice, emphasizing that Drejka went up to her.

    "He’s getting out like he’s a police officer or something, and he’s approaching me," she said. "I minded my own business … I didn’t do anything wrong."

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    In the can, Pennsylvania
    (Montgomery County)
    Posts
    3,472
    Rep Power
    21474853

    Default Re: Should stand your ground laws apply to cases like this.

    I really think the issue here is that the guy approached him and attacked him from the side when he posed no threat and was just standing there arguing.
    If he had gotten into a shoving match with the occupant in the car then I think the ruling would be different.
    But in this case an uninvolved person came up and chose to violently attack him for arguing with his girlfriend.

    My feeling is that someone that quick to violence was not exactly a gift to society either.
    Two assholes collided and one got killed, is kind of how I see it.
    Still a bad shoot in my opinion, but appears within the law.
    How can you have any cookies if you don't drink your milk?

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Bucks, Pennsylvania
    Posts
    13,618
    Rep Power
    21474867

    Default Re: Should stand your ground laws apply to cases like this.

    It's not at all difficult to be falsely accused of making racial remarks, just like it's easy to be called a "racist" by a snowflake on the Internet. It's a reflex action in some communities, not all of them minorities. I would give more weight to the claim that the shooter previously used racist slurs and fired a shot at that parking lot if there was a previous police report and a bullet hole consistent with that story.

    I'm not sure how the dead man was "defending" his baby-mama by physically shoving a man who was only talking. "Sticks and stones" and all that; you defend someone who's being attacked with words by using your own words, not by using force.

    I have zero sympathy for people who park in handicapped spaces without being handicapped. I'm not even thrilled about people with handicapped tags parking in handicapped spaces so they can walk a couple of miles through a mall, or pick up a load of 4X8 drywall panels. She was in the wrong, so she forfeits her right to be safe from mean words about what she's doing.

    You know what you do when you get to the store and there's no legal parking spaces left for you? You don't park, that's what. They weren't showing up at the Emergency Room of the hospital with arterial bleeding, he was there to buy a candy bar (or sell drugs to the store owner, who knows?)

    This was a case of lawless, violent thugs encountering a meddler with a gun, and they all chose poorly. But I don't want to live in a world where it's safe to "shove" people, or whatever it was that the dead man chose to do as his last act on Earth.

    I'd be interested in knowing the prior criminal history of the dead man. Sounds like his go-to response is violence. Me, if I was the sort to park illegally, I'd just drive away if someone hassled me, with a mumbled apology and a note-to-self to try not to be a parking asshole in the future. But I tend to obey the laws.

    You may not use deadly force against an aggressor if you provoked the attack. Saying correctly that "you're parking illegally" is not provocation. Even using the N-word is not provocation, because it's for damned sure that I wouldn't be justified in shooting someone who called me names, which is fortunate indeed for the many folks who've called me names. Look it up yourself, find the last time some white guy was held to be justified in shooting anyone "because he called me a cracker". I bet it was over 50 years ago, and in a Democrat-run state.

    The lesson here: Don't be a scofflaw. Don't feel entitled to do whatever you want to whomever you please, because eventually you may run up against someone who's not willing to cut you any slack.
    Attorney Phil Kline, AKA gunlawyer001@gmail.com
    Ce sac n'est pas un jouet.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Phoenixville, Pennsylvania
    (Chester County)
    Posts
    565
    Rep Power
    21474853

    Default Re: Should stand your ground laws apply to cases like this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coops View Post
    I hate when people park in the handicapped spots and are able to walk unassisted but I never actually say anything to them. I think they are abusing the privilege because they are "special" and are "entitled" to the convenience or maybe they feel they are smarter than the dolts that didn't think to game the system and get a handicapped plate.
    Getting shoved like that is an assault. There is no telling how much more abuse the attacker is getting ready to deal. Like I said, I avoid confrontation but I am thinking self defense but its a thin line to retaliation.
    For an alternative viewpoint, consider this. I often drive my 90 y/o mother to the Dr, food shopping, etc. She has a handicap tag, but doesn't really drive anymore. Typically, I will drop her off at the door and then park in a handicap spot so that she doesn't have far to walk when she comes out. (She can not walk more than about 50' without a shopping cart or cane and often even that is a bit of a struggle.)
    After I park her car, I enter the store to assist her with her shopping. So, to the casual observer, a relatively healthy man will be seen parking in handicap and walking unassisted into the store.

    I suppose I could park somewhere else and make the longer walk - no problem for me - but then my mother would have to wait at the doorway until I retrieve the car. Then everyone else has to wait while I pull over near the door, get out, and help her put her packages in the car and then assist her into the car. It seems in my case the lesser of all evils is parking in handicap based on my mother's limitations. So my point is not everything is necessarily how it might seem at first glance.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    On top of a hill, Pennsylvania
    Posts
    9,534
    Rep Power
    21474856

    Default Re: Should stand your ground laws apply to cases like this.

    Quote Originally Posted by sbmania View Post
    For an alternative viewpoint, consider this. I often drive my 90 y/o mother to the Dr, food shopping, etc. She has a handicap tag, but doesn't really drive anymore. Typically, I will drop her off at the door and then park in a handicap spot so that she doesn't have far to walk when she comes out. (She can not walk more than about 50' without a shopping cart or cane and often even that is a bit of a struggle.)
    After I park her car, I enter the store to assist her with her shopping. So, to the casual observer, a relatively healthy man will be seen parking in handicap and walking unassisted into the store.

    I suppose I could park somewhere else and make the longer walk - no problem for me - but then my mother would have to wait at the doorway until I retrieve the car. Then everyone else has to wait while I pull over near the door, get out, and help her put her packages in the car and then assist her into the car. It seems in my case the lesser of all evils is parking in handicap based on my mother's limitations. So my point is not everything is necessarily how it might seem at first glance.

    There are probably dozens of other scenarios as well like people with neurological disorders while their legs work just fine they have issues with other things that can come on within an instant so parking your car close is something that might benefit them.

    While it looks bad when some hops out of a car in a handicap spot we need to remember things are not always what they seem either.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    On top of a hill, Pennsylvania
    Posts
    9,534
    Rep Power
    21474856

    Default Re: Should stand your ground laws apply to cases like this.

    Quote Originally Posted by GunLawyer001 View Post
    It's not at all difficult to be falsely accused of making racial remarks, just like it's easy to be called a "racist" by a snowflake on the Internet. It's a reflex action in some communities, not all of them minorities. I would give more weight to the claim that the shooter previously used racist slurs and fired a shot at that parking lot if there was a previous police report and a bullet hole consistent with that story.

    I'm not sure how the dead man was "defending" his baby-mama by physically shoving a man who was only talking. "Sticks and stones" and all that; you defend someone who's being attacked with words by using your own words, not by using force.

    I have zero sympathy for people who park in handicapped spaces without being handicapped. I'm not even thrilled about people with handicapped tags parking in handicapped spaces so they can walk a couple of miles through a mall, or pick up a load of 4X8 drywall panels. She was in the wrong, so she forfeits her right to be safe from mean words about what she's doing.

    You know what you do when you get to the store and there's no legal parking spaces left for you? You don't park, that's what. They weren't showing up at the Emergency Room of the hospital with arterial bleeding, he was there to buy a candy bar (or sell drugs to the store owner, who knows?)

    This was a case of lawless, violent thugs encountering a meddler with a gun, and they all chose poorly. But I don't want to live in a world where it's safe to "shove" people, or whatever it was that the dead man chose to do as his last act on Earth.

    I'd be interested in knowing the prior criminal history of the dead man. Sounds like his go-to response is violence. Me, if I was the sort to park illegally, I'd just drive away if someone hassled me, with a mumbled apology and a note-to-self to try not to be a parking asshole in the future. But I tend to obey the laws.

    You may not use deadly force against an aggressor if you provoked the attack. Saying correctly that "you're parking illegally" is not provocation. Even using the N-word is not provocation, because it's for damned sure that I wouldn't be justified in shooting someone who called me names, which is fortunate indeed for the many folks who've called me names. Look it up yourself, find the last time some white guy was held to be justified in shooting anyone "because he called me a cracker". I bet it was over 50 years ago, and in a Democrat-run state.

    The lesson here: Don't be a scofflaw. Don't feel entitled to do whatever you want to whomever you please, because eventually you may run up against someone who's not willing to cut you any slack.
    I agree with this part.

Page 2 of 27 FirstFirst 12345612 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Stand Your Ground laws Challenged at the UN
    By priell3 in forum National
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: October 15th, 2013, 10:52 AM
  2. Schumer is after Stand Your Ground laws
    By Vrez in forum National
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: March 28th, 2012, 11:21 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •