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Thread: Had a ND today.

  1. #41
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    Default Re: Had a ND today.

    Quote Originally Posted by R L Suehr View Post
    https://www.backwoodshome.com/blogs/...chable-moment/

    Massad Ayoob had one earlier this year. If a guy that literally "wrote the book" more than once on defensive firearm use can have an ND anyone can. Complacency is a MF'er sometimes and can lead to just as many accidents as a newb.
    Too bad no one had a Youtube video of that one, pointing at the sky like a cowboy and then BANG!

  2. #42
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    Default Re: Had a ND today.

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidH View Post
    I really do not understand how this continues to happen to anyone OTHER than new firearms owners! Many times it is caused by someone who would call themselves “knowledgeable”. Unless I came in contact with a firearm that could spontaneously fire, this is simply an impossibility for me! And I have trouble understanding how people continue to be careless.

    I’m glad your carelessness did not injure or kill anyone.

    Triple check your double check people!
    It can happen but the risk can be reduced by following the rules.

    I have only had one in my life. I also attribute that one to the firearm on first hunting trip with my new wife's family. I was using lever action 30-30 that had been handed down from my father in-law to my wife and I was unloading it, I had it pointed in a safe direction. Cycled the lever and rounds 1 and 2 eject then BOOM! it went off, trigger finger no where near the trigger. Her family ranting and raving I did something wrong blah blah blah. The following year it happened to my father in-law while he was hunting on our property.. suddenly it was a firearm issue.
    It now resides in the back of the gun safe with a zip stripped lever and note "Unsafe can discharge during unloading" Really need to get it to a gunsmith because it is a great shooter
    Retired US Army
    NRA Life Member, GOA, USCCA
    "Artificial intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity"

  3. #43
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    Default Re: Had a ND today.

    You're have more than no D.

    You're also missing an R, F, G, Z, X, C, V and probably many more letters.
    My wife sells stun guns and pepper spray! PM me for info!

  4. #44
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    Default Re: Had a ND today.

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidH View Post
    For those calling on me to have one..... Number one, very good nature there!! Wishing wrong on someone! Number two, don’t mistake me for acting out YOUR carelessness. This isn’t something that happens to all. It happens to people who are CARELESS! PERIOD! I have never been nor will I ever be complacent to the point of careless behavior. And quite frankly, I don’t think having it happen makes one “safer” as many have alluded to. Just the opposite, in fact. I believe a person that has shown carelessness, is far more capable of having a future mishap, over someone who has never shown even the slightest bit of complacent/careless behavior.

    Causing a traffic accident does not make you a “safer” driver. Your insurance company does not reward your careless behavior because they think, “Well, now they will be more attentive at the wheel because they ALREADY made that mistake!” No! They charge you higher rates because they KNOW you are now a “higher risk” driver!
    Nobody is wishing anything bad on you. You just come off as really arrogant and self righteous with all your exclamation points!!! Apparently you have never made a mistake in your life. Sometimes human beings get distracted. Sometimes it's from something horrible like a death in the family or divorce. Sometimes it's something stupid. One momentary lapse of concentration and something stupid happens. I also think you are wrong about people who do screw up. My ND absolutely made me safer. It scared the hell out of me. Luckily I was not complacent about all the other rules of gun safety.

    Another thing to consider is what do you do with your guns? If you hardly shoot and only go to a static range you aren't pushing yourself. Here's something you can all shit on me for, I've dropped a loaded handgun. Several times. Am I a careless unsafe asshole? Maybe. I'm also drawing from a holster pushing to get consistent draws under a second. I'm pushing the limits of my ability in practice so when I go to a match or in real life a can perform. If you've never made a mistake, maybe you aren't trying hard enough. You guys can shit on me all you like. See how you compare at the next match before you judge.
    "Take the guns first, then worry about due process" Trump

  5. #45
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    Default Re: Had a ND today.

    My son shot a round through his bed which lodged in the baseboard. Learned him a lesson.
    MikeP - Christian, Patriot, Straight, White, Male, Conservative, Gun Owner

  6. #46
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    Default Re: Had a ND today.

    Quote Originally Posted by wanneroo View Post
    Too bad no one had a Youtube video of that one, pointing at the sky like a cowboy and then BANG!
    I'm actually surprised no video of it ever came out in this age of everyone having a camera on all the time.

  7. #47
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    Default Re: Had a ND today.

    I'm not typing out mine again, and the search feature is too painful.

  8. #48
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    Default Re: Had a ND today.

    Quote Originally Posted by R L Suehr View Post
    I'm actually surprised no video of it ever came out in this age of everyone having a camera on all the time.
    Here's his write-up. This is why "All guns are always loaded." Always. No matter how many people cleared it. This may be a triple-simultaneous brain fart. Such things are possible.

    LAYERS OF FIREARMS SAFETY: A TEACHABLE MOMENT
    Massad Ayoob
    May 23, 2018


    My last negligent discharge of a firearm occurred 40-plus years ago, in 1977 as I recall. No injury involved. I got home that night and wrote it up for my column in GUNS magazine, that entry titled “Anatomy of an Accidental Discharge” or words to that effect. (The term “negligent discharge” had not yet come into vogue.)

    Oh, wait, did I say “last”? Um…make that next to last.

    Yesterday I was finishing a training course, and we were about to go into the final shooting qualification. A few students had been jerking their triggers. I called them into a semi-circle to refresh them on the smooth, distributed, straight back press that a trigger demands for a good shot. The trigger on my teaching pistol of the week, a 1911 .45 auto, has too short a pull for someone to see from any distance, so I asked a nearby woman if I could borrow her double action revolver for a quick demonstration. Pointing the muzzle 12 o’clock high, and holding it a bit over my head so everyone could see it, I told them to watch my finger taking up the long trigger pull, and the uninterrupted rise and fall of the hammer and turning of the cylinder that would lead to the surprise trigger break a marksman desires.

    It was a surprise trigger break alright. “BANG!”

    A few seconds after a .38 Special round went toward the stratosphere from a current production Smith & Wesson Model 66 .357 Magnum, I opened the cylinder and hit the ejector rod, and a single nickel-plated spent casing fell to the ground.

    How did that happen? It was a “cold range,” all guns empty and checked as such by RSOs (Range Safety Officers) and the shooters themselves, alike. If you have ever taken one of my classes, you know that we go over safety protocols for over an hour, enforce them rigidly, and emphasize layer after layer of “safety nets.” In the end, that’s why no one was hurt when the revolver went “bang” instead of “click.”

    Layer one: Shooter checks the gun. This person is a very experienced, very proficient shooter. However, she usually uses a semiautomatic pistol and this was the first time in a long while she had used and carried a double action revolver. Layer two: the gun had been checked by a very experienced and highly trained range safety officer, before it went into the holster. Layer three: I had glanced at the back of the cylinder and observed no cartridge rims between the rear of the cylinder and the recoil shield of the frame as it came out of the shooter’s holster. Layer four: Confirmed by witnesses, I had opened the cylinder, looked down into it, and seen only empty chambers.

    What prevented tragedy was Layer five: the gun pointed skyward, in an area where there was virtually no likelihood of a bullet fired straight up coming down anywhere it couldn’t be safely absorbed.

    What happened? The stainless steel Model 66 is a silvery color similar to a nickel-plated cartridge case. Three of us, one of us twice, had looked and failed to see it there. On a lot of revolvers, when cartridges are ejected they can hit the left grip panel, which blocks their exit and allows them to slide back into the cylinder.

    The big culprit – on my part, certainly – was “the look that doesn’t see.” Closely associated with complacency, it happens when you’ve looked for something dangerous countless thousands of times and seen nothing there, programming your brain to see nothing there when something is. It’s associated with the fortunately rare tragedy where a hunter who desperately wants to see a deer in the woods spots a hiker wearing gray-brown clothing with a white handkerchief sticking out of his hip pocket, and concludes that he is looking right at his intended quarry, a white-tail deer.

    Today’s incident will become part of our safety lecture, as the one in 1977 has been for many years. No matter how many thousands of rounds a year you fire nor how long you’ve been in the game, constant vigilance is the price of safety when operating any potentially dangerous equipment, from vehicles to power tools to, yes, guns.

  9. #49
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    Default Re: Had a ND today.

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidH View Post
    I really do not understand how this continues to happen to anyone OTHER than new firearms owners! Many times it is caused by someone who would call themselves “knowledgeable”. Unless I came in contact with a firearm that could spontaneously fire, this is simply an impossibility for me! And I have trouble understanding how people continue to be careless.

    I’m glad your carelessness did not injure or kill anyone.

    Triple check your double check people!
    There is nobody more dangerous than a man who believes that he will never make a mistake.
    Attorney Phil Kline, AKA gunlawyer001@gmail.com
    Thanks to all who attended my Firearms Law Workshops this year!

  10. #50
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    Default Re: Had a ND today.

    Quote Originally Posted by scruff View Post
    The big culprit – on my part, certainly – was “the look that doesn’t see.” Closely associated with complacency, it happens when you’ve looked for something dangerous countless thousands of times and seen nothing there, programming your brain to see nothing there when something is.
    This is the most important part of that write up I think.
    It also gets compounded by the fact that multiple people are involved in the layers of safety, and each believes that the other will catch any error they themselves miss.
    I think it can ultimately lead to everyone involved slacking off a bit while feeling a false sense of security.
    The perfect example of a firearm always being handled as loaded even when known to be unloaded.
    A very good teaching lesson.
    Thanks for posting it.
    Bern-
    How can you have any cookies if you don't drink your milk?

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