Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Lititz, Pennsylvania
    (Lancaster County)
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    Default NRA LE Division is NOT Constable Friendly!

    Greetings all....

    I am a member of the NRA. I am a NRA certified firearms (pistol) instructor, certified Refuse To Be a Victim instructor, and certified range safety officer. I am also a "retired" constable in Lancaster County, and possess a retired LE card that meets the exact standards of the MPOETC. (signed by the current elected constable who also happens to be a local Municipal Police Officer full time).

    I contacted the LE division to sign up for the LE pistol instructor training (at $625.00) After contacting them, I received a VERY curt reply about being able to take the course, but NOT being able to be certified/recertified because I no longer have an affiliation with an "agency". Of course they require that an instructor's "agency" pay money to be recognized by the NRA. When I asked the NRA responder at NRAHQ in Virginia if he was familiar with PA Constables, he emailed back and said "he was" (also a very short curt response).

    Has anyone experienced something similar to this from the NRA? I have to admit that lately it seems to be "all about the money" to the NRA, and a lot less of their original charter goals. ANy advice would sure be appreciated here......

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    USN Retired, Pennsylvania
    (Monroe County)
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    Default Re: NRA LE Division is NOT Constable Friendly!

    Oh they are about the $$.

    I had a few people ask me to give LEO instruction but I don't know the requirements.

    Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun/RSO/CRSO.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Levittown, Pennsylvania
    (Bucks County)
    Posts
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    Default Re: NRA LE Division is NOT Constable Friendly!

    I'll take a stab at it. Constables run for the office, and run on a political platform. It is possible your platform (or NRA rating of your local government office holders) is not gun-friendly. Also, historically, I believe, constables being on par with sworn police officers has been an uphill battle.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Chambersburg, Pennsylvania
    (Franklin County)
    Age
    47
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    10,666
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    Default Re: NRA LE Division is NOT Constable Friendly!

    Maybe it's just me, but I have a hard time mustering sympathy when someone is upset because their "special" status isn't recognized/accepted as automatic entry into another "special" status group, especially when each respective status is being used and stacked for the financial gains of the members of the group.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    North of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    (Beaver County)
    Posts
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    1326993

    Default Re: NRA LE Division is NOT Constable Friendly!

    Quote Originally Posted by gnbrotz View Post
    Maybe it's just me, but I have a hard time mustering sympathy when someone is upset because their "special" status isn't recognized/accepted as automatic entry into another "special" status group, especially when each respective status is being used and stacked for the financial gains of the members of the group.
    Well said and I agree 100% so it's not just you ...
    If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Oley, Pennsylvania
    (Berks County)
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    Default Re: NRA LE Division is NOT Constable Friendly!

    Actually to be certified/recertified as an NRA LE Instructor, you must be actively employed by a Law Enforcement Agency, and assigned as an instructor for the agency. It isn't that you are a constable, it is that you are retired. If you are looking to do retired officer quals etc., check this link for info. http://www.psp.pa.gov/MPOETC/trainin.../firearms.aspx

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Luzerne County, Pennsylvania
    (Luzerne County)
    Posts
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    5299458

    Default Re: NRA LE Division is NOT Constable Friendly!

    What he ^ said.

    I have several LE certs through the NRA and my department never had to pay a fee, other than course fee....in order to be recognized by the NRA.

    They do allow retired officers to attend their courses. Not sure what issue they have with you.

    Eligibility

    Specific eligibility requirements must be met prior to attending any NRA Law Enforcement Firearm Instructor school. Registration in any of these programs must be made on the proper forms with appropriate documentation attached. Registration confirmation to attend must be received from NRA prior to arriving at any school. All applicants must be United States citizens or lawful permanent residents of the U.S. who must also be able to lawfully possess firearms and ammunition. Additionally, applicants must meet one of the following six criteria:

    A "Sworn" law enforcement officer - This is defined as someone vested with the constitutional or statutory authority to detain and/or arrest, who is authorized to carry a firearm in the furtherance of their duties, is typically employed by a federal, state, county or municipal organization and has a minimum of 3-years experience* as such. These may include but are not limited to police officers, sheriffs, special agents, marshals, troopers, park rangers, land & natural resource officers, marine officers, animal wardens, tribal police, correctional officers and/or railroad police. Reserve, auxiliary and/or part-time law enforcement officers who are "sworn" as defined above, are also eligible.

    A retired or previously employed "Sworn" law enforcement officer - This is defined as someone meeting the definition of "Sworn" officer above, who has retired with tenure, through disability or who has otherwise separated from their agency prior to retirement and had a minimum of 3-years experience* as such.

    A licensed "Armed" private security officer - This is defined as someone who is licensed by a federal, state or municipal regulatory agency to provide "Armed" personal protection or other physical security services and has a minimum of 3-years experience* as such.

    A member of the United States Armed Forces - This is defined as someone presently obligated to the U.S. Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, Coast Guard, any of their Reserve components, or National Guard. Members of the military must provide a letter from their unit or command specifically requesting their admittance into the school in support of their units' mission. Regrettably, former members of the military, (those who have retired, been discharged or have resigned their commissions), are not eligible to attend and once separated, must then establish eligibility through one of the other criterions.

    A full-time civilian firearm instructor who is employed by a public law enforcement agency - This is defined as someone employed full-time in a civilian capacity by a public law enforcement agency or organization to provide law enforcement specific firearm training to its "Sworn" law enforcement personnel. A letter from the Chief, Sheriff, or other appropriate command person attesting to their full-time employment status and experience will be required of anyone attempting to establish eligibility under this section.

    Documentation establishing one's eligibility will be required when submitting all applications. NRA retains the right to accept or decline any application.
    Last edited by Steve in PA; July 6th, 2018 at 02:50 AM.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Lititz, Pennsylvania
    (Lancaster County)
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    Default Re: NRA LE Division is NOT Constable Friendly!

    I appreciate all of the comments from the members here, both positive and negative. As to the "financial gain" aspect, I am not looking for financial gain by becoming a LE instructor. I am fortunate that between my military retirement, Social Security, and some other part-time endeavors (along with a very frugal wife), we are in a good position insofar as retirement goes. Before being elected as a Constable, I was a Deputy Sheriff for some years in Virginia. So this was not my first rodeo as a LEO. I DO believe that there needs to be tighter standards for PA Constables, as well as psych evals to minimize the number of cowboys that are allowed to serve in that capacity. I believe that proper LE firearms training would assist in this as well. Now as to LEOSA, PA Constables ARE, by definition, members of this group (including the retired definition). For every knucklehead Constable out there, there are 100 good ones that do their best to be professional and to serve the public. Again, thank you for your comments, and just as a matter of record, the FIRST LEO killed in the line of duty in Pennsylvania was a Constable.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    In the can, Pennsylvania
    (Montgomery County)
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    Default Re: NRA LE Division is NOT Constable Friendly!

    So what's the issue here?
    That you don't meet their current requirements for certification, or that you don't like their tone?
    Given the current anti 2A climate, rants against the NRA are not strategically ideal.
    If you are pro 2A then maybe it's better to take one for the team instead of damaging the NRA brand.
    Just my owe two.
    How can you have any cookies if you don't drink your milk?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Pittsburgh-South Hills, Pennsylvania
    (Allegheny County)
    Posts
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    Default Re: NRA LE Division is NOT Constable Friendly!

    Quote Originally Posted by V-MAN View Post
    Well said and I agree 100% so it's not just you ...
    thirded, my experiences with PA constables is they're insecure and demand you give respect without them earning it.

    had a bench warrant out for a ticket I never knew was issued, notice was taped to my door. call number. " hi, is this John?" "yes this is constable xxxxx" "Ok john, " "Constable" "John" "constable" "you posted this notice on my door, what's the deal?" *explains issue* "ok, i'll go to the local magistrate and clear it up tomorrow. thanks for your time, John." "constable *click, hang up*

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