NRA LE Division is NOT Constable Friendly!

[docpa7]

Greetings again.

To respond to the poster that believes I am anti NRA. I am NOT. I am a lifelong member, and feel they are the strongest organization that is out there defending the 2A. I am proud to be both a member and an instructor of multiple disciplines (civilian) offered by the NRA. My issue was with the tone of the responses that I received from the LE Division. I felt that they could have been more informative and less condescending when replying to my inquiry. That is all.

As to the comment about "earning" your stripes as a constable. Although I had several years in the patrol division of a Virginia County Sheriff's Office, when I moved to PA and naively ran for (and was elected) as a constable.

I was both surprised and dismayed in both the lack of support that constables (in-general) received from the Commonwealth of PA (i.e., no access to JNET, the lack of in-depth training provided, etc.), and the overall quality of the elected constables. Yes, I met many cowboys that just wanted to strap on a badge and a gun and strut around like they were God's gift to the LE world, but I also was fortunate to meet and associate with other constables that has previous LE experience.

I had one of these take me under his wing as serving as my FTO, and taught me well. He and I were invited to participate in felony warrant sweeps with our county Sheriff's Dept, worked extensively with a local municipal police department on warrant service missions, developed a good working relationship with the PSP, and EARNED the trust of the MDJ's in our county (as well as surrounding counties).

We transported both state and federal prisoners from all of the PA state/federal prisons back here for arraignments and preliminary hearings, (not one escape), and were chosen by our primary MDJ to secretly transport a 16 year old prisoner that has killed his friend, and both of the friend's parents with a knife (for preliminary hearing) from the county prison to the MDJ and back. We were called upon by the Chief of Police in another township to assist with the search and perimeter security of another killer that killed his 14 year old girlfriend's parents and took her west (to finally be caught in Indiana).

My long-winded point is that it took years to develop this level of trust and respect from the courts and LE agencies in our area. It truly breaks my heart everytime I read or hear about a constable that abuses his authority, thinks that he can do "traffic stops" intimidates a member of the public, or does some other unprofessional stunt. That paints ALL constables in a bad light, not just the few that try to act as police officers.

Please do not paint ALL constables with the broad brush of being "wanna-be" cops. After serving several terms in the role, I KNEW what my mission statement was, and did everything possible to color inside the lines. My former partner and I knew what are limitations were. There were also many times when we would see a Police Officer or Trooper with a stopped car along the road (by him/herself) that we would just stop and make sure that the Officer/Trooper knew we were covering his/her back. We did NOT interfere (unless asked to assist with traffic or taking a person into custody/transporting the person to the police station/barracks). We were thanked many times for just "being there" or assisting, and believe it or not, the Troopers were some of the most appreciative LEO's we encountered.

I am proud to have served the people of the Commonwealth as a constable. NOT as a police officer, trooper, or anything else. To the other LEO's on this thread, the constables that EARN your respect can be a great resource when something routine starts to go sideways.

[Berncly]

To respond to the poster that believes I am anti NRA. I am NOT. I am a lifelong member, and feel they are the strongest organization that is out there defending the 2A. I am proud to be both a member and an instructor of multiple disciplines (civilian) offered by the NRA. My issue was with the tone of the responses that I received from the LE Division. I felt that they could have been more informative and less condescending when replying to my inquiry. That is all.

I do not think that you are anti NRA.
What I am saying is that at this moment in time we all need to rally behind the NRA, the GOA, and the FOAC.
While it is acceptable to voice displeasure within the 2A community, doing so in today's aggressive anti 2A climate can do more harm than good.

You need to ask yourself how your post will look to unaffiliated people who stumble onto it via Google.
If your post will discourage the uninitiated from joining the NRA and defending the 2A, then it is probably best if you don't post it.
Softening the posture of the thread title and opening post can make the difference between encouraging or discouraging others to stand up and join the fight to protect the 2A.

[Statkowski]

From an outsider, perhaps all of this started due to nobody outside of Pennsylvania knowing what a Pennsylvania Constable is. Pennsylvania's constables are not employees, do not work for any recognized police agency, cannot perform traffic stops due to driving infractions, but are covered by LEOSA. Pennsylvania's sheriffs and their deputies, on the other hand, do work for a recognized agency, can perform traffic stops due to driving infractions, but are not covered by LEOSA.

[1911Operator]

From an outsider, perhaps all of this started due to nobody outside of Pennsylvania knowing what a Pennsylvania Constable is. Pennsylvania's constables are not employees, do not work for any recognized police agency, cannot perform traffic stops due to driving infractions, but are covered by LEOSA. Pennsylvania's sheriffs and their deputies, on the other hand, do work for a recognized agency, can perform traffic stops due to driving infractions, but are not covered by LEOSA.

Sorry for the Hi Jack, but PA Deputy Sheriffs are not recognized under the LEOSA? Aren’t road patrol deputy’s Police/Peace Officers?

[Statkowski]

The only Sheriff's Department recognizable under LEOSA would be Allegheny County. All others can perform traffic stops, but road patrol isn't part of their duties. Additionally, and this is the big one, they lack investigatory authorization, which constables do have, thus making constables covered by LEOSA but not sheriff's departments.

[WCMG]

Greetings again.

To respond to the poster that believes I am anti NRA. I am NOT. I am a lifelong member, and feel they are the strongest organization that is out there defending the 2A. I am proud to be both a member and an instructor of multiple disciplines (civilian) offered by the NRA. My issue was with the tone of the responses that I received from the LE Division. I felt that they could have been more informative and less condescending when replying to my inquiry. That is all.

As to the comment about "earning" your stripes as a constable. Although I had several years in the patrol division of a Virginia County Sheriff's Office, when I moved to PA and naively ran for (and was elected) as a constable.

I was both surprised and dismayed in both the lack of support that constables (in-general) received from the Commonwealth of PA (i.e., no access to JNET, the lack of in-depth training provided, etc.), and the overall quality of the elected constables. Yes, I met many cowboys that just wanted to strap on a badge and a gun and strut around like they were God's gift to the LE world, but I also was fortunate to meet and associate with other constables that has previous LE experience.

I had one of these take me under his wing as serving as my FTO, and taught me well. He and I were invited to participate in felony warrant sweeps with our county Sheriff's Dept, worked extensively with a local municipal police department on warrant service missions, developed a good working relationship with the PSP, and EARNED the trust of the MDJ's in our county (as well as surrounding counties).

We transported both state and federal prisoners from all of the PA state/federal prisons back here for arraignments and preliminary hearings, (not one escape), and were chosen by our primary MDJ to secretly transport a 16 year old prisoner that has killed his friend, and both of the friend's parents with a knife (for preliminary hearing) from the county prison to the MDJ and back. We were called upon by the Chief of Police in another township to assist with the search and perimeter security of another killer that killed his 14 year old girlfriend's parents and took her west (to finally be caught in Indiana).

My long-winded point is that it took years to develop this level of trust and respect from the courts and LE agencies in our area. It truly breaks my heart everytime I read or hear about a constable that abuses his authority, thinks that he can do "traffic stops" intimidates a member of the public, or does some other unprofessional stunt. That paints ALL constables in a bad light, not just the few that try to act as police officers.

Please do not paint ALL constables with the broad brush of being "wanna-be" cops. After serving several terms in the role, I KNEW what my mission statement was, and did everything possible to color inside the lines. My former partner and I knew what are limitations were. There were also many times when we would see a Police Officer or Trooper with a stopped car along the road (by him/herself) that we would just stop and make sure that the Officer/Trooper knew we were covering his/her back. We did NOT interfere (unless asked to assist with traffic or taking a person into custody/transporting the person to the police station/barracks). We were thanked many times for just "being there" or assisting, and believe it or not, the Troopers were some of the most appreciative LEO's we encountered.

I am proud to have served the people of the Commonwealth as a constable. NOT as a police officer, trooper, or anything else. To the other LEO's on this thread, the constables that EARN your respect can be a great resource when something routine starts to go sideways.

, but I also was fortunate to meet and associate with other constables that have previous LE experience.

Going to nitpick here because this sentence rubs me the wrong way. Basically, what the OP is saying unless you are an EX-LEO, you're a wannabe cop playing constable who he would not want to be associated with. I'm a certified constable, fairly new at 3-years in office, who had no previous LEO experience. Most constables I know do not have previous LEO experience and are professional, hard-working, ethical people who provide a valuable service to the PA Courts 40+ hours a week. Like any job, we have our idiots, but the sly comment that only ex-LEO's make good constables is the elitest altitude that constables have to deal with all the time from active LEO agencys in PA, just irritates me to hear it from a constable.

[docpa7]

In response to the constable that responded to my last post.....

I am SORRY if I did not write what I meant, and if it was misconstrued. My fault. What I actually meant is that although there are constables that are former LEO's, I have met and still am friends with some constables that are TOTALLY professional, want to serve the public and have NO previous LE experience. Everyone has to start somewhere! Again, I am sorry if I did not state what I actually meant. It all boils down to the motivations for wanting to become a constable, police officer, trooper, deputy sheriff, etc. If the person's motivations are noble, they will make a FINE LEO. If it is an ego trip for them, they will end up in the paper (as constables, police officers, troopers, etc.) already have. I thank you for pointing out my garbled message (sincerely). Stay SAFE out there!

[1911Operator]

The only Sheriff's Department recognizable under LEOSA would be Allegheny County. All others can perform traffic stops, but road patrol isn't part of their duties. Additionally, and this is the big one, they lack investigatory authorization, which constables do have, thus making constables covered by LEOSA but not sheriff's departments.

Ok, but do sheriffs deputy’s have powers of arrest? If so, I don’t see how they aren’t included. I only mentioned road patrol, as Imknow some sheriffs only perform jail duties and as such don’t have the additional (police/peace officer) authority.

[docpa7]

Here is the actual LEOSA as to who is qualified. Reading this, I DO believe deputy sheriffs (and sheriffs) are covered.

926B - Qualified Actively Serving
Is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of, or the incarceration of any person for, any violation of law.
Has statutory powers of arrest or authority to apprehend pursuant to section 807(b) of Title 10, United States Code (also known as Article 7(b) of the UCMJ).
Is authorized by the organization to carry a firearm.
Is not the subject of any disciplinary action by the organization that could result in suspension or loss of police powers.
Meets the organization's standards, if any, which require the employee to regularly qualify in the use of a firearm of the same type (e.g., revolver or semiautomatic pistol) as the concealed firearm
Is not under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance.
Is not prohibited by federal law from receiving a firearm.



926C - Qualified Retired and Separated
Be separated in good standing from service with the DoD component as a law enforcement officer.
Before separation, have been authorized to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution, or the incarceration of any person for any violation of law.
Before separation had statutory powers of arrest or authority to apprehend pursuant to section 807(b) of Title 10, United States Code (also known as Article 7(b) of the UCMJ).
Before separation, or retraining into a new career field (without apprehension authority), served as a law enforcement officer, or separated from service with the DoD component after completing any applicable period of service, due to a service-connected disability, as determined by that component
To carry concealed, during the most recent 12-month period, (1) met the State's standards for training and qualification to carry a firearm for active law enforcement officers in that state for the same type of weapon as the concealed, (2) qualify using the States LEOSA firearms qualification course, or (3) if the State has not established law enforcement officer firearms qualification standard the instructor will certify the officer has completed the DoD Component handgun qualification course conducted by a state certified civilian firearms instructor using the member's privately owned firearm and personally procured ammunition.

NOTE 1: With the exception of DoD Component firearms training, all firearms qualification courses must be taught by certified firearms instructor through the National Rifle Association, American Association of Certified Firearms Instructors, or be qualified to conduct a firearms qualification test for active duty law enforcement officers within that state.
NOTE 2: When carrying concealed the proof of firearms certification cannot be older than 12 months at all times.
Have not entered into an agreement with the DoD component from which the individual is separated from service acknowledges he or she is not qualified under section 926C for reasons relating to mental health.
NOTE 3: There is no requirement for a mental health examination for separating or separated law enforcement officers seeking a LEOSA identification card.
Have not been officially found by a qualified medical professional employed by the DoD component to be unqualified for reasons of mental health.
Not be prohibited by federal law from receiving a firearm.
Agree that while armed, will not be under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance.

[Statkowski]

Here is the actual LEOSA as to who is qualified. Reading this, I DO believe deputy sheriffs (and sheriffs) are covered.

926B - Qualified Actively Serving
Is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of, or the incarceration of any person for, any violation of law.
Has statutory powers of arrest or authority to apprehend pursuant to section 807(b) of Title 10, United States Code (also known as Article 7(b) of the UCMJ).
Is authorized by the organization to carry a firearm.
Meets the organization's standards, if any, which require the employee to regularly qualify in the use of a firearm of the same type (e.g., revolver or semiautomatic pistol) as the concealed firearm

From the Tioga Sheriff's Department we get this:

DUTIES OF A SHERIFF

• To serve and enforce all orders of the Tioga County Court of Common Pleas.
  
• To provide security and protection for the court of common pleas and court related functions
  
• To provide security for the courthouse complex
  
• To transport prisoners to and from county, state, and federal institutions for court appearances
  
• To keep the peace in the county
  
• To arrest violators of the law and fugitives
  
• To assist other law-enforcement agencies in the county as requested or in periods of emergency
  
• To assist in special law-enforcement efforts & community events .
  
• To serve bench warrants and civil writs
  
• To serve protection from abuse orders
  
• To enforce child custody orders
  
• To conduct levies, sales of personal property and real estate
  
• To issue concealed weapons permits and licenses to sell firearms
  
• To perform other duties as requested by the court of common pleas

Criminal investigations? Nope, not there. Arrest concerning a criminal act conducted in their presence, yes, but after the fact, no.

Google "Pa. Sheriff + LEOSA" and you'll discover even those in the business don't know the answer.