Navy Vet With Weapon Gets Shot And Killed

**MrTee12** · July 2nd, 2018, 12:00 PM

He seemed to be a really cool guy (based off the video). He was a good guy, doing what good guys do, breaking up a fight/keeping the peace. If this was your friend, you would do the same.

Being a Vet and a CCW holder, and a friend, he may have felt he could have deescalate the situation.

Unfortunately, his personal firearm was not secured safely and it got him killed.

Should the university police have reacted with deadly force, no, but they did and it's a tragedy.

He was clearly not a threat.

Condolences to the victims family.

**Gman106** · July 2nd, 2018, 12:46 PM

For whatever reason he got involved, he should have got uninvolved the minute the cops showed-up. In any case, a sad situation and unnecessary loss of life.

**Qtrborecrazy** · July 2nd, 2018, 01:43 PM

1- are they actually university police?

2- why are they patrolling the streets of Portland?

**Berncly** · July 2nd, 2018, 03:56 PM

It looks like his pocket holster worked its way out of his shallow shorts pocket during the scuffle.
He was drinking in the bar while armed, but it seems there is no specific CC law restricting alcohol or bars in Oregon.

It looks like the police showed up at a moment when he just looked like another combatant in the scuffle.
There is no way the police could have known he was trying to break up the fight.
The police show up and see a guy mixed up in a fight, they see a gun hit the ground during the fight, they see him reach for it and they shoot him.

People should really understand what happened here and learn from it.
If you are carrying a gun you have no business getting into a drunken scuffle unless lives are at risk.
If you are carrying a gun you have no business hanging out in places where drunken scuffles are likely.

You cannot expect your gun to remain secured in your holster during a fight.
You cannot expect a police officer to show up during your fight and be able to know what is happening.
Some common sense and good decisions will help prevent this kind of avoidable tragedy in the future.

**Carson** · July 2nd, 2018, 05:24 PM

Originally Posted by Berncly

It looks like his pocket holster worked its way out of his shallow shorts pocket during the scuffle.
He was drinking in the bar while armed, but it seems there is no specific CC law restricting alcohol or bars in Oregon.

It looks like the police showed up at a moment when he just looked like another combatant in the scuffle.
There is no way the police could have known he was trying to break up the fight.
The police show up and see a guy mixed up in a fight, they see a gun hit the ground during the fight, they see him reach for it and they shoot him.

People should really understand what happened here and learn from it.
If you are carrying a gun you have no business getting into a drunken scuffle unless lives are at risk.
If you are carrying a gun you have no business hanging out in places where drunken scuffles are likely.

You cannot expect your gun to remain secured in your holster during a fight.
You cannot expect a police officer to show up during your fight and be able to know what is happening.
Some common sense and good decisions will help prevent this kind of avoidable tragedy in the future.

All very good points.

**wanneroo** · July 2nd, 2018, 07:43 PM

Certainly the police overreacted in this case and hopefully will have to answer for their actions.

But also, like my dad taught me at an early age from his experiences working in the emergency room as a doctor, stay out of bars and it will keep you out of a lot of trouble. I agree and never partook in bars or the nightlife.

Last as has been debated on this forum many times before, IMO stay out of the middle of fights and brawls.

**dkf** · July 2nd, 2018, 08:19 PM

Originally Posted by Remington788

And it looks like there was a cop there already. Why jump in at that point?

Probably because the cops were useless, you can see that in the video. Just standing there looking for something to shoot. I am sure it will be "justified' though.

The dead guy picked a stupid way to carry but there is not a reason he should have been shot by that pussy of a cop for getting knocked on his ass and picking up the gun.

**Defender** · July 2nd, 2018, 08:34 PM

Originally Posted by Berncly

It looks like his pocket holster worked its way out of his shallow shorts pocket during the scuffle.
He was drinking in the bar while armed, but it seems there is no specific CC law restricting alcohol or bars in Oregon.

It looks like the police showed up at a moment when he just looked like another combatant in the scuffle.
There is no way the police could have known he was trying to break up the fight.
The police show up and see a guy mixed up in a fight, they see a gun hit the ground during the fight, they see him reach for it and they shoot him.

People should really understand what happened here and learn from it.
If you are carrying a gun you have no business getting into a drunken scuffle unless lives are at risk.
If you are carrying a gun you have no business hanging out in places where drunken scuffles are likely.

You cannot expect your gun to remain secured in your holster during a fight.
You cannot expect a police officer to show up during your fight and be able to know what is happening.
Some common sense and good decisions will help prevent this kind of avoidable tragedy in the future.

If his weapon worked it's way out of his pocket, it is obvious he had too big a gun for the shorts he was wearing. I myself wear shorts with deep pockets and my Ruger LC 380 fits nicely and no one can really determine if I am even carrying. I totally agree with the rest of your comments.

**eagleclaw** · July 2nd, 2018, 08:35 PM

After the Parkland shooting the resource officer was called a coward for lack of action. In fact the whole Sheriff’s department was denounced because of their failure to enter the school and confront the shooter. Because of that I suspect police departments around the country were reminded not to wait until the cows come home before they take action in a threatening situation. In this case it’s likely the police didn’t know who was who in this fight, they saw a gun and someone reaching for it, and yelled commands to drop the gun. The person shot did not obey the commands thus the police took action using deadly force. What if he was a bad guy and the police let him pick up the gun and he started shooting people without the police responding the way they did? If that would have happened would we being calling those responding officers cowards too?

**dkf** · July 2nd, 2018, 08:46 PM

Boy that has to be the biggest stretch I have heard to justify a police shooting in a long time. The guy didn't even get to stand up fully before he was shot. He was facing away and obviously didn't know and probably couldn't hear what the cops were yelling at. If that would have been a "civilian" shooter instead of a cop they would be in prison.