Will 5.56 NATO be overtaken by a new caliber?

[buxbandit]

I've despised the 5.56 since they first took away my M14 in 1967. Bring back the 7.62x51. Kind of surprised that so many who like to carry the largest caliber possible for personal protection are all in on a weenie round for combat.

Do I want to get hit by one? NO. I don't want to get hit by a .22 either.

[Carson]

Not till I get issued my light saber.

Here's a dose of reality for the OP... I'm active military. My gov issued cell phone is a Blackberry. You think we're a bit behind in some areas? I can't tell you how many times I've pulled it out to make a call and someone says, "wow, they still make those things?"

Well, of course... during the RFQ process the US government generally entertains and awards contracts to the lowest bidder.

I don’t think that was the case with the Blackbery and RIM. They provided a level of security that other manufacturers and carriers could not. Not sure if that is still the case though.

[Hodgie]

I've despised the 5.56 since they first took away my M14 in 1967. Bring back the 7.62x51. Kind of surprised that so many who like to carry the largest caliber possible for personal protection are all in on a weenie round for combat.

Do I want to get hit by one? NO. I don't want to get hit by a .22 either.

Bring back .308 and watch scores and actual hits in combat sink down to unacceptable levels.

[Ecclectic Collector]

Maybe the real question is to what degree will the military adopt/readopt other calibers to fill needs not met by the 5.56mm cartridge.

[Hodgie]

Maybe the real question is to what degree will the military adopt/readopt other calibers to fill needs not met by the 5.56mm cartridge.

Who said they don't already?

[Ecclectic Collector]

Yeah the Russian concept of a designated marksman using a full caliber 7.62 rifle really has a lot going for it. No love for the SMG anymore with anybody though for some reason the military is flirting with the idea of adopting one again.

[RTF92.5]

And yet so many people are hung up on only having "mil-spec" parts in their build.

Isn't this more about interoperability than quality?

Maybe the real question is to what degree will the military adopt/readopt other calibers to fill needs not met by the 5.56mm cartridge.

As Hodgie and someone early in the thread pointed out, they do. Units field Mk12s, M21s and M25s in .308 in a designated marksman role for that extra reach, .300 Blackout seems to be a favorite of protective details where short-barreled maneuverability and punching through cars are important and outside range is well under 200 yards, and I'm sure somebody is playing around with 6.5 Creedmoor and Valkyrie. This is probably the likely near-future with more and more specific units having access and training with specific platforms for specific mission requirements while the standard units will field 5.56 for years to come.

Yeah the Russian concept of a designated marksman using a full caliber 7.62 rifle really has a lot going for it. No love for the SMG anymore with anybody though for some reason the military is flirting with the idea of adopting one again.

Isn't this more protective detail driven, like Secret Service? Need to conceal but need more firepower than a pistol? IDK, just a guess.

[streaker69]

Eventually, but not anytime soon! Every couple years there is another “fan boy” round that is supposed to be SO SUPER MUCH BETTER than 5.56. From the 6.8spc to the 6.5 Grendal, the 300 Whisper, 458 Socom or 50 Beowulf. Now the new one is the Blackout. The Ar15 platform has been kickn’ Butt & takn’ names for over 60 years! We are not going to see a replacement anytime soon. And we certainly won’t be seeing the best performing round in this platform being replaced, while it’s still in use.


I believe the next “BIG” thing will be infantry Rail Gun Technology. The advancements made in the last few years have led to successful large scale, repeating rail guns. A battleship in China has already been photographed with a full size rail gun, although we do not know it’s performance. The US DOES have fully functional units which can send rounds at Mach7, with a range of 100 miles away! And I ALSO believe they are on our ships as well. The next logical step would seem to be smaller versions which the soldier could use.

I think we're still several decades away from hand held rail guns. The amount of energy needed to fire the weapon at killing velocities just isn't available yet. I've seen some stuff made, but nothing that comes close to piercing the skin. Even if they get one, getting a RoF to a reasonable level that it's useful in a battle situation is going to be difficult to over come due to the time it takes to charge the system. You just can't break the laws of physics.

To build on this:



I just picked up 10 of these for under $1 each. These were actually used in a real rail gun built by a bunch of guys in college. They had a couple hundred of them in an array to fire a projectile. Until we figure out a way to store that much energy in such a small package, we won't be seeing hand held rail guns for a very long time. Each one of these weighs about 5lbs. Just one has the potential to kill you if it's fully charged.

[GeneCC]

The muzzle velocity generated from that little 5.56 bad boy wreaks trauma on anyone it touches... can you say yaw and fragment?

7.62x51mm NATO (West German version) -- The design standards for ammunition that can be called "NATO" ammunition do not specify bullet jacket material or jacket thickness. The construction of the West German 7.62 NATO bullet differs from the US 7.62 NATO round in that the jacket material is copper plated steel, whereas the US version is copper (or the so called gilding metal alloy, which is predominantly copper). The West German steel jacket is about 0.020in (0.6mm) thick near the cannelure and the US copper jacket is about 0.032in (0.8mm) thick at the same point. This design difference is responsible for a vast difference in performance in tissue. The German bullet, after travelling point-forward for only about 8cm, yaws and breaks at the cannelure. The flattened point section retains only about 66 percent of the bullet's weight, the remaining 45 per cent becomes fragments (Fig. 8). The wound profile can be described as an enlarged M16 profile (Fig. 3), with dimensions of the tissue disruption increased by 60 per cent (temporary cavity about 22cm diameter; permanent cavity about 11 cm diameter, penetration depth of the bullet point about 58cm).

Photos of the round and other stuff here...

http://www.ciar.org/ttk/mbt/papers/m...ckler.unk.html

[Hodgie]

The problem with the German like any 7.62x51 or .308 is shooting scores and actual hit to kill ratios take a huge dump. If you cant hit it then you can’t stop or kill it period.