Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #51
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    Default Re: What would/ should you do after pulling your gun on someone?

    focus front sight, squeeze trigger till the threat stops

    the one time I did, I later get to explain to him and his mother why he almost got shot, no cops were needed or requested by both sides.

  2. #52
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    Default Re: What would/ should you do after pulling your gun on someone?

    Quote Originally Posted by GeneCC View Post
    By all means, point guns at other people. Don't worry about being startled or while in stress doing something you didn't intend to do. Ignore generations of experience in high stress conditions. Even if you keep your finger off of the trigger in practice it'll be there when you're under stress. People do the damndest things under stress.

    Show of hands. Who practices after exercising or spinning around to simulate a head punch? I do. My accuracy goes to shit. I have to dig deeper. Things get murky for me when I'm heavily stressed.

    I know that Port of Arms keeps me from blasting someone by mistake. Port arms is a great way to balance out being armed with being prudently armed.

    I'll take my chances doing Port Arms. That's what old school police did when covering suspects. They could come out of it fast.


    Dumb? Time will tell.
    Do you keep your guns inside of your house? Which way are they pointed, toward the ceiling, floor, or wall? Are you willing to destroy your ceiling, floor, or wall? Gun safety rules are not absolutes and Cooper was not writing scripture.
    NOBODY NEEDS ASSAULT SPEECH

  3. #53
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    Default Re: What would/ should you do after pulling your gun on someone?

    Quote Originally Posted by raxar View Post
    Do you keep your guns inside of your house? Which way are they pointed, toward the ceiling, floor, or wall? Are you willing to destroy your ceiling, floor, or wall? Gun safety rules are not absolutes and Cooper was not writing scripture.
    There is one rule that is an absolute, guns are always loaded.
    Quote Originally Posted by cdi View Post
    A drop leg holster? A big clue indicating an Operator operating operationally, of course.

  4. #54
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    Default Re: What would/ should you do after pulling your gun on someone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gun View Post
    There is one rule that is an absolute, guns are always loaded.
    Dry fire practice, disassembly of a glock, function tests.
    NOBODY NEEDS ASSAULT SPEECH

  5. #55
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    Yutopia, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: What would/ should you do after pulling your gun on someone?

    Quote Originally Posted by JustinHEMI View Post
    I'm not the one struggling to understand the rule. In no way does it imply a firing requirement. You're re-wording it to make a false point, the bolded is not what it says. Why does that bother you?
    I am not struggling with anything. Cooper was clear - if you're not going to destroy it do not aim at it. If you do aim at it you best be firing because you have intended to destroy it. Do not cover the muzzle of your firearm over something you do not intend to destroy. It's damn logical and to the point.

    Col Cooper wasn't a range wienie. He served in two wars. Pacific theater in the Corps on fleet duty. He served in Korea in the USMC doing "irregular warfare".

    Col Cooper understood how people behave under severe stress. He understood that good solid and clear rules prevent problems for people who follow them.

  6. #56
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    Default Re: What would/ should you do after pulling your gun on someone?

    Whatever you have to tell yourself, it's your right to train how you want. Cooper never said what you're claiming, though.
    Life has a melody.

  7. #57
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    Default Re: What would/ should you do after pulling your gun on someone?

    Quote Originally Posted by JustinHEMI View Post
    "There is no “violation” of range safety rules when pointing a weapon at a suspect when the situation is sufficiently threatening. Rule #2 states: “Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy.” It says, “…willing to destroy,” not going to destroy. This is a paper target rule when taken literally."
    A threat of last resort. Pointing a gun is the highest level of threat—short of actually shooting the suspect—an officer has. A pointed gun and a yelling officer are wholly intended to transmit the message that “There is nothing left except to shoot you, so comply with my orders.”
    You're quoting an online publication that caters to police. Note, everyone else, that they're talking about Court Cases. The Courts have allowed this and the courts have allowed that.... A court case does not pertain to real world events, only that the Courts allow police to point firearms at "suspects". If police AD someone well, who can say how the paperwork will be handled?

    Rule #2 states: “Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy.” It says, “…willing to destroy,” not going to destroy. This is a paper target rule when taken literally.

    Rule 2 takes into account firearm safety failures, stress responses, odd muscle responses. Known as "real world experience".

    A person under high stress will not handle a firearm the same way that they do at the range. I deliberately induce stress to practice managing it. Things are different there. My shooting and everything else is different.

    An altercation will be dynamic, often stressful. Motor skills like sight control and trigger control are not very good unless they are well trained. Generally how you train is how you fight. So that person you wanted to bluff or threaten?

    Well, I wonder how many of you "put the sights on the bad guy" folks actually practice such things? Do you pair off using pellet guns and face masks to see if you could react in time? No, you just shoot at B-27 targets standing facing the target, do you?


    Assuming you're going to "cover" someone then the gun handler has to be very vigilant to avoid the person from doing anything else. Running away, finding a shooting position,rolling up on you, putting your eyes out, dropping your pants and shoving that handgun barrel up your behind. Whatever. This vigilance is very taxing. Police have handcuffs and other restraints. Most civilians do not have them. So you're stuck with this person and perhaps their accomplices and friends nearby.

    You're in a land rarely traveled by most of us. Perhaps your "target" has been there several times?

    The person being covered is conditionally dead. I've been in this place a few times on the road. I remember a very strong clarity and great reaction times. I was responding on adrenaline and skills. Why not go for it?

  8. #58
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    Default Re: What would/ should you do after pulling your gun on someone?

    Quote Originally Posted by raxar View Post
    Do you keep your guns inside of your house? Which way are they pointed, toward the ceiling, floor, or wall? Are you willing to destroy your ceiling, floor, or wall? Gun safety rules are not absolutes and Cooper was not writing scripture.
    I keep them in a locker when they are not holstered on my person or are put into a range bag. I will remove bolts/slides or open cylinders when they're bagged for the range. I have a gun locker in my car for the EDC, which is checked for clearance, then the piece of oriented away from me and passengers.

    I don't have ADs for this reason.

    Even in the house locker I orient them to prevent ADs from being a problem. Good practices lead to good results.


    "Are you willing to destroy your ceiling, floor, or wall?"

    I don't aim at the ceiling, floor or wall. I don't "cover" them if I put them into my locker.

    I don't believe in leaving firearms out in the house. I don't understand people who leave firearms lying around the house. I consider such behavior to be complacent.

    Complacent people get hurt.

  9. #59
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    Default Re: What would/ should you do after pulling your gun on someone?

    Quote Originally Posted by GeneCC View Post
    You're quoting an online publication that caters to police. Note, everyone else, that they're talking about Court Cases. The Courts have allowed this and the courts have allowed that.... A court case does not pertain to real world events, only that the Courts allow police to point firearms at "suspects". If police AD someone well, who can say how the paperwork will be handled?




    Rule 2 takes into account firearm safety failures, stress responses, odd muscle responses. Known as "real world experience".

    A person under high stress will not handle a firearm the same way that they do at the range. I deliberately induce stress to practice managing it. Things are different there. My shooting and everything else is different.

    An altercation will be dynamic, often stressful. Motor skills like sight control and trigger control are not very good unless they are well trained. Generally how you train is how you fight. So that person you wanted to bluff or threaten?

    Well, I wonder how many of you "put the sights on the bad guy" folks actually practice such things? Do you pair off using pellet guns and face masks to see if you could react in time? No, you just shoot at B-27 targets standing facing the target, do you?


    Assuming you're going to "cover" someone then the gun handler has to be very vigilant to avoid the person from doing anything else. Running away, finding a shooting position,rolling up on you, putting your eyes out, dropping your pants and shoving that handgun barrel up your behind. Whatever. This vigilance is very taxing. Police have handcuffs and other restraints. Most civilians do not have them. So you're stuck with this person and perhaps their accomplices and friends nearby.

    You're in a land rarely traveled by most of us. Perhaps your "target" has been there several times?

    The person being covered is conditionally dead. I've been in this place a few times on the road. I remember a very strong clarity and great reaction times. I was responding on adrenaline and skills. Why not go for it?
    You either missed or willfully ignored the fact that I've actually deployed a firearm defensively.

    Have you?
    Last edited by JustinHEMI; June 19th, 2018 at 09:40 PM.
    Life has a melody.

  10. #60
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    Default Re: What would/ should you do after pulling your gun on someone?

    Quote Originally Posted by JustinHEMI View Post
    Whatever you have to tell yourself, it's your right to train how you want. Cooper never said what you're claiming, though.
    You attended a class at Gunsite? You know the guy and heard him qualify his rules?

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