Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #11
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    Default Re: Gun Owner Liability Insurance SB 1182

    Quote Originally Posted by Brick View Post
    I hate to disagree with you, but if PA's courts are capable of claiming that the PSP "Gun Sales Database" is not a registry because it doesn't contain all guns, they're capable of claiming this is not a tax since payment is made to a "private entity" to purchase the insurance.
    They called it a "sales registry".

    I wonder how they'd feel if the PA State police could register all patient claims from Planned Parenthood or Women's Services? "We're not registering your abortions, M'am, just your purchases of services from these providers". I wonder if the penumbra of privacy could cover that transaction?

    I wonder if we could scare some of these Elitists by appealing to legal precedent? Nah... they only think one move ahead.

  2. #12
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    Default Re: Gun Owner Liability Insurance SB 1182

    These characters could just limit the insurance requirements to holders of CCWs. Kind of like how they currently observe our auto insurance with respect to our automobile registries.

    Probably would just encourage people not to bother to get a CCW or get the PA Legislature to support Constitutional Carry. I'm not sure that they want that to happen.

  3. #13
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    Default Re: Gun Owner Liability Insurance SB 1182

    The idiots behind this legislation don't care a lick about the insurance, it's just one more step down the slippery slope to full registration and confiscation.

  4. #14
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    Default Re: Gun Owner Liability Insurance SB 1182

    Quote Originally Posted by eatmydust View Post
    The idiots behind this legislation don't care a lick about the insurance, it's just one more step down the slippery slope to full registration and confiscation.
    True. It's about raising the cost and effort of gun ownership. They have a phobia about guns, which are a relatively low cause of death in America.

    You could easily infer the motives of a racist group that obsessed about "black crime", not "crime". Or homophobes who dedicated their lives to ending "gay employee embezzlement".

    But somehow, we're supposed to ignore the names and charts and arguments of "GUN violence" groups, the "GUN homicide" comparisons, and be gullible enough to believe that they care about ALL violence and ALL crime.

    Gun-free London has more murders than New York City. I bet this has zero impact on the obsessed gun haters.

    I like guns, the way car aficionados like a Porsche or a Mustang. They're objects with a purpose, some are very well made, the parts slide nicely and do exactly what is intended. In my hand, guns are tools that keep me safer, like cars or insurance or a weather report or brake pads. If you took away guns, I'd keep a sword or a club handy. But the anti-gun loonies hate the objects as passionately as I like a smooth bolt action, more than I appreciate the careful machining of an AR, more than I like the crude effectiveness of an AK. They hate guns the way a spurned spinster hates the man who dumped her at the altar, and we have about as much chance of a meaningful dialogue with them as that man has at getting a good job recommendation from that spinster.

    (That being said, there's value in a public debate with the anti's, an effort to seek a rational common-sense level of gun control that keeps guns away from infants and lunatics without infringing the rights of the law-abiding. It's not because we can change their minds, it's because the bystanders will be educated if we make more sense than the Lefties, which is frankly not a daunting goal. Many of my Internet conversations (even here) are aimed at defeating the arguments of others, not at persuading the one person making the argument. If you make more sense than the other guy, you can sometimes persuade hundreds of casual observers.)
    Attorney Phil Kline, AKA gunlawyer001@gmail.com
    Ce sac n'est pas un jouet.

  5. #15
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    Default Re: Gun Owner Liability Insurance SB 1182

    Quote Originally Posted by eatmydust View Post
    The idiots behind this legislation don't care a lick about the insurance, it's just one more step down the slippery slope to full registration and confiscation.
    I would tend to disagree.. I am willing to bet you can tie the backers of this, financially to the insurance companies offering it
    Retired US Army
    NRA Life Member, GOA, USCCA
    "Artificial intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity"

  6. #16
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    Default Re: Gun Owner Liability Insurance SB 1182

    Once again. Government mandate purchase of insurance. Just remember, you can keep your guns if you like your guns. Nope.
    Lower your expectations to zero and you'll never be disappointed.

  7. #17
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    Default Re: Gun Owner Liability Insurance SB 1182

    Quote Originally Posted by Brick View Post
    Another one to oppose. $100,000 liability insurance required.



    for details and text see: http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/...type=B&bn=1182
    Farneses is a left wing Philadelphia democrat nut job.
    Our brethren are already in the Field, why stand we here Idle?
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  8. #18
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    Default Re: Gun Owner Liability Insurance SB 1182

    Oh the hypocrisy! When a Democrat imposes a prohibitive insurance condition on the exercise of a Constitutional right, that is "good government". When the NRA or the USCCA offer reasonably priced insurance products for firearms owners, in New York State, they call it "murder insurance".

  9. #19
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    Default Re: Gun Owner Liability Insurance SB 1182

    Quote Originally Posted by GunLawyer001 View Post
    Gun-free London has more murders than New York City. I bet this has zero impact on the obsessed gun haters.

    New York City is a police state. Their "focused policing" has resulted in people being choked to death for selling loose cigarettes. I can only imagine how many others are nailed for victimless crime laws, violating city ordinances or the other things that Police do when they're not looking for violent people. The City is awash in gunshot detectors. Gun fire attracts a heavy response. Police have access to millimeter wave technology to detect concealed weapons. They do profiling based upon body language of gun carriers. Obtaining a CCW in New York City is very expensive and almost impossible without heavy political influence. I think the going rate now is close to $10,000 just to get the Lawyer money up front to walk you through the process.

    The Brady Campaign gives New York State and New York City in particular very high grades for their "sensible gun control". They would be very happy if the rest of the US were like New York City. Such a mindset does not lend it self to debate, discussion and compromise. When confronted with these people I am reminded of my younger days dealing with Klansmen - the hate is palpable.



    London has irresponsible cretins running it. The British State has made passivity of the average citizen a greater good. Violent immigrants have control over parts of the city - "No Go Zones". Sooner or later the murders were going to pass some US city.
    Last edited by GeneCC; June 4th, 2018 at 11:15 PM.

  10. #20
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    Default Re: Gun Owner Liability Insurance SB 1182

    Quote Originally Posted by GunLawyer001 View Post
    That being said, there's value in a public debate with the anti's, an effort to seek a rational common-sense level of gun control that keeps guns away from infants and lunatics without infringing the rights of the law-abiding. It's not because we can change their minds, it's because the bystanders will be educated if we make more sense than the Lefties, which is frankly not a daunting goal. Many of my Internet conversations (even here) are aimed at defeating the arguments of others, not at persuading the one person making the argument. If you make more sense than the other guy, you can sometimes persuade hundreds of casual observers.
    Most casual observers don't care. They mind their own business. The good old American tendency for people to mind their own business has been our biggest asset. After that, the shrill voices of the gun control lobby are their own worst enemy. Many of their claims fly in the face of the personal reality of millions of Americans. Most people are beyond responsible with firearms. Most firearms sit around doing absolutely nothing. A firearm is a machine that has an active life of a few minutes, most of its existence is spent doing nothing.


    What do we have now? We have the Brady Law. We have the Hughes Machinegun Freeze. We have a whole passel of laws that govern NFA devices. Since 1968 we are not allowed to transport firearms across state lines for sale as an occupation unless we hold an FFL. While Marijuana is legal in some States it is still a disqualifier under the GCA of 1968. We have restrictions on firearms in schools, prisons, other government buildings.

    Various States have legislatures which have a bidding war each time some tragedy or another excuses it. At this point California is allocating money to confiscate firearms from "Disqualified" persons. Oregon and a few other places have "Red Flag" laws that allow hearsay evidence to be admissible. New Jersey has debated limiting firearm capacity to five rounds.


    What is a 'lunatic'? Is there a legal definition for that term? The Gold Standard since 1968 has been "mentally defective", per a legal procedure. Such a person would perish in a few weeks if they did not have custodial care. I don't know about the criminally insane but they probably fit into this category too. Mental defective under Federal law is probably someone who needs constant supervision.

    In Great Britain being prescribed an SSRI is grounds for forcible confiscation of firearms. The police show up, say "Gimmee". They got your records. How many million Americans are taking such medications, often for reasons that have nothing to do with depression? How many depressives kill themselves? One in ten, one in twenty? Riddle me this - it's OK to have Dr. Kevorkian give you a "cocktail" but using a pistol is offensive?


    I'm all for discussion. How does one have discussion with people like David Hogg, Ms. Gonzales or their friends? How does one have a discussion with people who won't define their terms, who claim "I know it when I see it"?

    How does one have discussion with Elitist shitbags like Mike Bloomberg, who thinks that he's going to heaven for his mischief? He says, "I'm the best friend of the 2nd Amendment". I'm reminded of another era where someone said, "We have to destroy this village to save it from communism".
    Last edited by GeneCC; June 4th, 2018 at 11:20 PM.

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