Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #31
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    Default Re: Finishing a polymer80 Spectre (pistol) lower in PA as a non-resident

    The answer is no (imo).
    N.J. RESIDENTS are prohibited from acquiring pistols without a N.J. permit to purchase pistols ( see N.J.S.A. 2C58-3).
    You are not MOVING to N.J., you are already a resident and therefore subject to N.J. statute.

    Furthermore, it would not be legal for a N.J. resident to purchase a black powder pistol or bbgun at Cabella's in Pa. and transport it back to N.J.
    The reason is, the FFL is not permitted to make a sale which he knows would be illegal in the state of residence of the purchaser.
    You can rest assured that Cabella's is well aware that bbguns and b.p. firearms are considered firearms in N.J.

    Go to Cabella's and announce that you are a N.J. resident and want a b.p.revolver- watch how fast you are denied the purchase.
    You could buy a long gun from Cabella's, provided you fill out a 4473 and a N.J. certificate eligibility, but not a handgun.

    I do cross border sales of long guns for N.J. residents and compliance work on a pretty regular basis.
    Crusader's local #556 South Central Asia chapter

  2. #32
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    Default Re: Finishing a polymer80 Spectre (pistol) lower in PA as a non-resident

    Why not do the 80% thing in New Jersey? Is it not ok to bring an 80 home to nj? Very specific question. Gang banger? MS13?

    They never want to pay a lawyer. They always ask legal advise from people not qualified to give it. They usually get angry when they don’t get the answers they want.
    The Gun is the Badge of a Free Man

  3. #33
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    Default Re: Finishing a polymer80 Spectre (pistol) lower in PA as a non-resident

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunsnwater View Post
    Why not do the 80% thing in New Jersey? Is it not ok to bring an 80 home to nj? Very specific question. Gang banger? MS13?

    They never want to pay a lawyer. They always ask legal advise from people not qualified to give it. They usually get angry when they don’t get the answers they want.
    My thoughts also. My question to the OP is similar to ^^^ - Is it legal in NJ to purchase an 80% 1911 frame? How about an 80% AR lower - legal to buy in NJ? If it is then why would it be illegal to finish it in NJ? Is it legal to finish an 80% frame/lower in NJ? OP, how about answering these questions.

    If you are not allowed to purchase/finish an 80% frame/lower in NJ, and think you can do it in PA and then take it back to NJ and be ok, then if it were to be found out and reported the DA would have a field day with you in court. Ever heard of "Constructive Intent"? Look it up and read about it if you're not familiar with it.
    Ron USAF Ret E-8 FFL01/SOT3 NRA Benefactor Member

  4. #34
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    Default Re: Finishing a polymer80 Spectre (pistol) lower in PA as a non-resident

    The op is well aware he is prohibited by N.J. law to build it in state.
    That's why he wants to build it out of state.
    He has been answer-shopping this question around for quite a while.
    Crusader's local #556 South Central Asia chapter

  5. #35
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    Default Re: Finishing a polymer80 Spectre (pistol) lower in PA as a non-resident

    Following up:

    Appreciate the advice to contact a lawyer - I contacted Joshua Prince's office before posting here, but haven't received a response yet (I emailed right at the time of the NRA convention which he was attending). I'll try his office again.

    As a supporter of legal gun purchases that the government has no record of, I fully support the gentleman's efforts if it can be done legally.
    This person gets it.

    N.J. RESIDENTS are prohibited from acquiring pistols without a N.J. permit to purchase pistols ( see N.J.S.A. 2C58-3).
    You are not MOVING to N.J., you are already a resident and therefore subject to N.J. statute.
    You left a condition out.

    NJ residents are prohibited from acquiring pistols *IN NJ* without a NJ pistol purchase permit.

    Here's another example - I personally know a person with homes in both NJ and FL. They have purchased pistols in FL and brought them to their home in NJ. Legal - No NJ pistol purchase permit required.

    One more time - NJ Pistol Permits are needed only if purchasing a pistol *IN NJ*.

    You could buy a long gun from Cabella's, provided you fill out a 4473 and a N.J. certificate eligibility, but not a handgun.
    Yes, understood. I have purchased a shotgun from Gander Mtn in upstate NY as a NJ resident and done exactly what you described.

    I have also purchased a bb pistol from Cabela's in PA and brought it back to NJ. No forms filled out, No PA law broken, no NJ law broken, no federal law broken, and, according to NJ law, I ended up with a "handgun" in NJ without applying for a pistol purchase permit.

    Why not do the 80% thing in New Jersey? Is it not ok to bring an 80 home to nj? Very specific question. Gang banger? MS13?
    Discussed earlier, it's illegal to *finish* an 80% in NJ.

    There is pending legislation to outlaw the purchase of 80% lowers in NJ but it's not passed yet. Even if that was passed, I think I still would have the option of having a friend in PA order the parts and then pick them up there.

    The reason why I'm seeking advice on it - part curiosity, part wondering if this might be an option for someone in a situation like Carol Bowne had:

    https://gunowners.org/news06032016.htm

    (Short synopsis - Carol was being stalked by Ex, applied for NJ pistol purchase permit, was stabbed to death by Ex 43 days after applying and permit had not been approved yet)

    He has been answer-shopping this question around for quite a while.
    I disagree that I'm "answer-shopping"; I don't "want" a particular answer - If I didn't care what the law was I'd just go ahead and buy one and finish it in NJ.

    However, based on what I know of NJ law and federal law, I haven't seen an argument for "illegality" yet that makes sense.

    I think I have a "rough" answer, appreciate everyone who took the time to reply. I'll keep trying to get in touch with Prince's office; any other referrals to attorneys who might answer this appreciated.
    Last edited by DirtyDigz; May 23rd, 2018 at 08:07 AM.

  6. #36
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    Default Re: Finishing a polymer80 Spectre (pistol) lower in PA as a non-resident

    Quote Originally Posted by DirtyDigz View Post

    I think I have a "rough" answer, appreciate everyone who took the time to reply. I'll keep trying to get in touch with Prince's office; any other referrals to attorneys who might answer this appreciated.
    Gunlawyer0001 here on the forum. His real name is Phil Kline, look him up.
    “Proclaim Liberty throughout all the Land unto all the Inhabitants thereof.

  7. #37
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    Default Re: Finishing a polymer80 Spectre (pistol) lower in PA as a non-resident

    Quote Originally Posted by DirtyDigz View Post

    NJ residents are prohibited from acquiring pistols "IN NJ" without a NJ pistol purchase permit.

    Here's another example - I personally know a person with homes in both NJ and FL. They have purchased pistols in FL and brought them to their home in NJ. Legal - No NJ pistol purchase permit required.

    One more time - NJ Pistol Permits are needed only if purchasing a pistol *IN NJ*.
    Is Florida a primary residence or a vacation home?
    There is a BIG difference...If he lives "IN" NJ or FL.
    Last edited by :-); May 23rd, 2018 at 09:09 AM.
    -Smiley IANAL, don't listen to me.

  8. #38
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    Default Re: Finishing a polymer80 Spectre (pistol) lower in PA as a non-resident

    Quote Originally Posted by :-) View Post
    Is Florida a primary residence or a vacation home?
    There is a BIG difference...If he lives "IN" NJ or FL.
    Not actually, what dual state residents can do is clearly spelled out in the BATFE regs. I am an FFL/SOT and do transfers (handguns and NFA items) to several people who are FL and NY residents and own homes here in PA. If your primary residence is say NY, and you have a NY DL you have specific laws you are under when buying a handgun in NY. However, if you also own a home in PA and pay real estate taxes (and any other taxes required by PA and the local .gov), you are considered a PA resident when you are staying in that home, even if for a weekend. During that weekend, you can buy a handgun in PA without worrying about the NY laws. That said, (and my dual state resident customers who are from restrictive states know this) that they cannot take the firearm acquired in PA (under the dual state resident clause) back to the restrictive state unless they meet/abide by the laws of that state. So it doesn't matter where their primary residence is, as long as they know what they are allowed to do and abide by all the regs/laws.
    Ron USAF Ret E-8 FFL01/SOT3 NRA Benefactor Member

  9. #39
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    Default Re: Finishing a polymer80 Spectre (pistol) lower in PA as a non-resident

    He has to have actual homes in both states. I see.....
    Last edited by :-); May 23rd, 2018 at 09:01 PM.
    -Smiley IANAL, don't listen to me.

  10. #40
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    Default Re: Finishing a polymer80 Spectre (pistol) lower in PA as a non-resident

    You should see a lawyer. The N.J. statute is very plain, you are violating N.J. law buying a bb pistol at Cabella's and returning to N.J.
    A bb pistol is not a firearm on the federal level, but it is in N.J.- does that make Cabella's in violation of their FFL license requirements not to sell something that is illegal in the state of the buyer? I don't know.
    Can a Pa. FFL sell 30 rnd mags to a N.J. resident? I don't know that either but as an FFL I play it safe and don't do it.
    Crusader's local #556 South Central Asia chapter

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