Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #81
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    Default Re: June 16th come ruin it for everybody with us in Abington PA

    Quote Originally Posted by buxbandit View Post
    You're more inciteful then I am. I can't see any sense in this at all, unless the purpose is to gin up the liberal base.
    When most of the people on a gun forum think it's a bad idea, it's probably a bad idea.
    I thoroughly understand and there were many who just knew that Trump was going to get us into a nuclear war with Little Han. I am not predicting whether the result will be good or bad, I could see it going either way.
    I see stupid people, they're everywhere, they don't even know they're stupid

  2. #82
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    Default Re: June 16th come ruin it for everybody with us in Abington PA

    Quote Originally Posted by Emptymag View Post
    I think the biggest "issue" I have with this is not knowing the outcome of the guy who was arrested/locked up in a mental facility.

    I'm more inclined to throw my support behind someone/some cause when I'm certain that my support is justified.
    I'd hate to march in support of "gun rights" only to find out later that the guy should not have even been near a gun.

    That's really the biggest issue I have. The "political" aspect, while valid, isn't as big an issue as throwing support behind someone without knowing the details.


    There are a few people posting here who I can listen to what they say, and think, "OK, that's a valid concern", but the rest is just a copy/paste of the "pioneering days" of open carry. It was only a few short years ago when most of the forum would pounce on anyone who even suggested that open carry could be done - "You're going to ruin it for everyone!"

    The opposite is true - more people than ever now know that carrying a handgun openly (I hate the term "OC" / "OCing") is completely legal.
    The same goes for openly carried long guns. People (the general public) have begun to learn that this too can be perfectly legal.
    They may not like it, but they now know.
    We're not throwing our support behind the guy who was 302ed. We do not yet know if that was a legitimate action or not, and we're not jumping to conclusions about it. Maybe he needed to be 302ed, and maybe he didn't. But either way we're taking the police at their word and letting them know we are watching.

    And we have a lot of faith in Abington police that they are not going to do anything inappropriate and we're going to walk around for a couple of hours and then go to lunch or go home.

    Hey, speaking of lunch, anyone know if there is a Chipotle nearby? I kid, I kid
    If you don't know who your state legislators are go here:
    http://www.legis.state.pa.us/index.cfm
    put your zip plus 4 in the box in the upper right hand corner.

  3. #83
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    Default Re: June 16th come ruin it for everybody with us in Abington PA

    BGOS

  4. #84
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    Default Re: June 16th come ruin it for everybody with us in Abington PA

    Quote Originally Posted by j_h_smith View Post
    So, let me get this straight, if the kid isn't nuts and he's just a victim of an over zealous government, you think he did everything wrong? Likewise, you believe this June 16th rally is also wrong?

    And by your last statement, you believe it's okay to have a right as long as it doesn't piss off the LEFT? To what degree are you willing to take this argument? Because trust me, this public opinion you speak of is nothing more than not wanting to piss off the LEFT. I guess the folks in Maryland have been beat up so much that most are tired and aren't willing to take any more crap about our God given right to self defense and the Right to keep and bear arms.

    You will find that you won't be able to give the LEFT enough. Give them a little and they'll want a lot more. Give them alot and that will never be good enough. Take it from a servant of the Socialist People's Republic of Maryland, if you don't use it, you will lose it.

    You end your comment about fighting wisely. Can you please explain that comment to me? Is it wise to put your light under a basket? Is it right to never speak the unspeakable? When you find yourself looking at where your rights went, it will be too late to fight the wise fight. Wisdom is knowing when it's time to fight. If you don't think it's time to fight back, then you doomed to your own reality.
    Another person saying that anyone who doesn't support this march deserves to lose rights.

    Nice. It's Kwikrnu all over again.

    The point here is to be able to see what you're doing from another point of view. It's a gift that good lawyers have, and salesmen, and good mothers. It's called empathy, people.

    Some lawyers craft a hodgepodge of arguments and are very pleased with themselves, and then they lose; "trusts can build new machineguns" is that kind of blind argument. Good lawyers figure out the other side's strategy and craft an argument that defeats that.

    Put yourself in the mindset of soccer moms, low-information voters who only know what they see on TV. TV informs them that semi-automatic assault weapons are the same weapons of war used on battlefields, and they have no place on America's streets. Their sole purpose is to kill many unarmed people as fast as possible.

    The low-info voters don't spend any time wondering why cops always seem to have access to AR-15's, since we don't really want our cops to kill many unarmed people as fast as possible. Whatever, "The View" is on, or The Bachelor is picking a skank, or some unknown is singing her heart out for some judges. Life is busy, no time to do research.

    Pick a group with whom you have no real sympathy. Make it radical Muslims, extremist gay rights folks, democrats, communists, Antifa, foul-mouthed guys who don't buy coffee but use a table at Starbucks, whatever. Imagine that 1 member of their group just annoyed some community, and the group's response is to send in 10 times as many annoying members to taunt the same community.

    Would that win you over, or push you to the negative side about them?
    Attorney Phil Kline, AKA gunlawyer001@gmail.com
    Thanks to all who attended my Firearms Law Workshops this year!

  5. #85
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    Default Re: June 16th come ruin it for everybody with us in Abington PA

    Quote Originally Posted by GunLawyer001 View Post
    Another person saying that anyone who doesn't support this march deserves to lose rights.

    Nice. It's Kwikrnu all over again.

    The point here is to be able to see what you're doing from another point of view. It's a gift that good lawyers have, and salesmen, and good mothers. It's called empathy, people.

    Some lawyers craft a hodgepodge of arguments and are very pleased with themselves, and then they lose; "trusts can build new machineguns" is that kind of blind argument. Good lawyers figure out the other side's strategy and craft an argument that defeats that.

    Put yourself in the mindset of soccer moms, low-information voters who only know what they see on TV. TV informs them that semi-automatic assault weapons are the same weapons of war used on battlefields, and they have no place on America's streets. Their sole purpose is to kill many unarmed people as fast as possible.

    The low-info voters don't spend any time wondering why cops always seem to have access to AR-15's, since we don't really want our cops to kill many unarmed people as fast as possible. Whatever, "The View" is on, or The Bachelor is picking a skank, or some unknown is singing her heart out for some judges. Life is busy, no time to do research.

    Pick a group with whom you have no real sympathy. Make it radical Muslims, extremist gay rights folks, democrats, communists, Antifa, foul-mouthed guys who don't buy coffee but use a table at Starbucks, whatever. Imagine that 1 member of their group just annoyed some community, and the group's response is to send in 10 times as many annoying members to taunt the same community.

    Would that win you over, or push you to the negative side about them?
    When any of those things are explicitly covered my a God given Right and ratified by the founders of my country, I will give them credence. My Rights don't stop at someone else's feelings. People talk about how other members of society don't care about the 2A or that if one exercises their rights, the main stream population will want to take that away from you. Why is it that you only feel that way about the 2nd Amendment? I don't see ANYONE willing to give up their 4th or 5th Amendment rights? Why is that?

    As a lawyer, would you recommend a client to give up his right to a trial by his peers? How about we just have nothing but bench trials? Because our founding fathers knew what could happen if that were to occur? Don't you fight for Due Process?

    So why are some willing to shelve their 2nd Amendment rights. I just don't understand that model of democracy.

  6. #86
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    Default Re: June 16th come ruin it for everybody with us in Abington PA

    Quote Originally Posted by j_h_smith View Post
    As a lawyer, would you recommend a client to give up his right to a trial by his peers? How about we just have nothing but bench trials? Because our founding fathers knew what could happen if that were to occur? Don't you fight for Due Process?

    So why are some willing to shelve their 2nd Amendment rights. I just don't understand that model of democracy.
    Nice strawman argument attempts.

    Try this: Hey Gunlawyer, do you think it would be a good idea to float an open carry or preemption test case to the PA Supreme Court this session?

    Theres no way we could lose because 'Merica!

    If "not being afraid to exercise your Constitutional rights" winds up causing more infringements, was it a smart thing to do in the end?

    There's a time and a place for everything. Some people just don't agree that this is the best time for an open carry black rifle protest.

  7. #87
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    Default Re: June 16th come ruin it for everybody with us in Abington PA

    A bit of sense, if I can. If you're walking from a parking area to a hunting area, your car to the range or the RV to a serious competition. It's your right. Be glad you live in a state that doesn't challenge it. It's also the right of underinformed millennial soccer moms to be able to take their children outside without without some gun toting stranger scaring the shit out of everyone. That's in the constitution too.
    Hearts and minds have been winning since Sun Tzu.
    Gun control isn't about guns...it's about control

  8. #88
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    May 2007
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    Default Re: June 16th come ruin it for everybody with us in Abington PA

    Quote Originally Posted by buxbandit View Post
    It's also the right of underinformed millennial soccer moms to be able to take their children outside without without some gun toting stranger scaring the shit out of everyone. That's in the constitution too.
    Could you be just a little more specific?

  9. #89
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    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: June 16th come ruin it for everybody with us in Abington PA

    Quote Originally Posted by buxbandit View Post
    You're more inciteful then I am. I can't see any sense in this at all, unless the purpose is to gin up the liberal base.
    When most of the people on a gun forum think it's a bad idea, it's probably a bad idea.
    Like when most people on the forum thought that openly carrying handguns was a bad idea that was going to ruin it for everyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by gnbrotz View Post
    Could you be just a little more specific?
    I'm pulling up a chair for this one too...
    June 16th PAFOA Group Shoot and BACON Fest! (near Pgh) Details HERE - ALL WELCOME!

  10. #90
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    Default Re: June 16th come ruin it for everybody with us in Abington PA

    Quite frankly, I have no fears that 3 or 6 guys carrying rifles in some little Bumfuck Pennsylvania town is going to be the pivotal moment when our second amendment rights begin to crumble.

    Look at those crisis actors in Florida - they had the fresh blood of teenagers on their side. They had money and actors, and money, and politicians, and money, and virtually 100% of teachers nationwide, and more money than God pumped into a media campaign to strip away gun ownership. I haven't even scraped the surface of the money, effort, and backing that went into that, and what has happened?

    A few states/cities have raised buying ages and restricted the sale of certain types of firearms. ALL of that activism, marching, television interviews, crying, and making demands, and that was the result?
    When I look at the guys in this thread speaking of peacefully standing up for their rights, I really don't see it as something that's going to "ruin it for everyone".
    June 16th PAFOA Group Shoot and BACON Fest! (near Pgh) Details HERE - ALL WELCOME!

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