Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #51
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    Default Re: June 16th come ruin it for everybody with us in Abington PA

    This (the rights accorded by the 2A) is a hearts and minds battle.
    Providing the anti's a popular forum on a silver platter is no way to win hearts and minds. You do know how you'll be portrayed, right?
    Gun control isn't about guns...it's about control

  2. #52
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    Default Re: June 16th come ruin it for everybody with us in Abington PA

    Quote Originally Posted by buxbandit View Post
    This (the rights accorded by the 2A) is a hearts and minds battle.
    I assume you mean "afforded by"? Either way, the 2A doesn't "afford" or "accord" (ie - grant) me SHIT. It recognizes my natural, INALIENABLE right to self defense. If the 2A were repealed, that right would still exist.

    Quote Originally Posted by buxbandit View Post
    You do know how you'll be portrayed, right?
    This ain't my first rodeo.

  3. #53
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    Default Re: June 16th come ruin it for everybody with us in Abington PA

    Quote Originally Posted by gnbrotz View Post
    Interesting idea, but I think carrying my shotgun and the AR would be too heavy.

    For those who seriously think I'd wear a "Fuck The Police" shirt *in this context*, please see 'sarcasm' in the dictionary. Applies to the above as well. Of course, I certainly will have some type of 2A related message on my apparel.

    For all you "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should" folks.....a Sheriff once said that about me, guns, and voting. Thanks to a far different cast of characters many years ago, this community helped me clear things up for that Sheriff - in court.
    The main difference between your previous battle with the sheriff, and the battle at the polls, is that the sheriff is limited to what the law says. You won a LEGAL battle. This is not a legal battle, it's a POLITICAL battle.

    The antis have the media, and most of the courts. If we alienate enough voters, then the "ban assault weapons" meme wins at the polls, and the law is changed.

    Do you think that the current PA supreme court would strike down an assault weapons ban? Other states have upheld them. We had one nationally for 10 years. Heller has a big loophole.

    Think it through, from the perspective of a low-information soccer mom in Abington. She looks out her window and sees a bunch of men with evil black rifles walking through her town, apparently just for the purpose of being seen.

    She calls the cops. They tell her "under EXISTING law, there's nothing we can do. We're helpless to stop them. Maybe if the law was changed...."

    She has a choice in November, vote for the people promising that those bad men will never be allowed to march through her town again with those evil rifles, or vote for the candidate who says there's nothing we can do.

    Do the math. Other people don't think or react the way you want them to, they react the same way they always react. Based on limited and erroneous information, based on visceral feelings, based on promises from lying Lefties.
    Attorney Phil Kline, AKA gunlawyer001@gmail.com
    Thanks to all who attended my Firearms Law Workshops this year!

  4. #54
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    Default Re: June 16th come ruin it for everybody with us in Abington PA

    Quote Originally Posted by GunLawyer001 View Post
    The main difference between your previous battle with the sheriff, and the battle at the polls, is that the sheriff is limited to what the law says. You won a LEGAL battle. This is not a legal battle, it's a POLITICAL battle.
    I think that was both, as is this new action. All of the comments flying around on newspaper articles and social media are exactly the same. At my previous hearing, the judge suggested *from the bench* that the law should be changed. My county commissioners, *in their official capacity* drafted a letter to all state legislators that had consituents in Franklin county asking them to take action to legislatively ban guns in polling places. All despite their oaths to uphold both the state and federal constitution. I have a copy of the 'go pound sand' letter they received as a response.

    My biggest question in regards to the upcoming outing is "How will the police respond?". I've been on the wrong side of 'common sense' public opinion for years. I know where my personal line is. I understand that the day will likely come where my own opinion will not stop the turning tide. I also doubt that that lone opinion, and my actions based thereon, will be the reason it happened. "Don't exercise you're rights or you'll lose them" means nothing to me, and I'm not concerned one bit about how my actions may affect those who take that stance.

    For those who strongly disagree with me, I'd challenge you to come out and "protest" our "demonstration". After all, that's your right.

  5. #55
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    Default Re: June 16th come ruin it for everybody with us in Abington PA

    Who posted this, and do you agree with him:

    "I do not believe I must dress in any particular manner in order to exercise my rights.
    I do not seek confrontation. The cops seek the confrontation. I do not talk to cops, nor do I approach them. The cops approach me and when they do they typically detain me.
    I believe I have a right to openly bear long arms."

    Also see this thread, note the quote in Post #1:
    http://forum.pafoa.org/showthread.php?t=142589

    "I will get a decision that confirms my theory or confirms the judge's theory. That is what my $400 will pay for. I don't care if it hurts Gura or anyone else. They should welcome the case law."
    Last edited by GunLawyer001; May 12th, 2018 at 07:49 AM.
    Attorney Phil Kline, AKA gunlawyer001@gmail.com
    Thanks to all who attended my Firearms Law Workshops this year!

  6. #56
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    Default Re: June 16th come ruin it for everybody with us in Abington PA

    Quote Originally Posted by GunLawyer001 View Post
    Who posted this, and do you agree with him:

    "I do not believe I must dress in any particular manner in order-shirto exercise my rights.
    I do not seek confrontation. The cops seek the confrontation. I do not talk to cops, nor do I approach them. The cops approach me and when they do they typically detain me.
    I believe I have a right to openly bear long arms."
    I do agree completely with the referenced quote above. I also understand the concept of going "too far", even when practicing legal activity.

    I do not believe my planned actions cross that line. If I did wish to really push the envelope, I would actually wear a "Fuck The Police" shirt, complete with a skull face mask, black ball cap, and sunglasses - just as Antifa likes to do while they exercise their 1A recognized rights. All legal, but guaranteed to stir folks up, and likely to justify police intervention. Based on the Chief's own public statement, our planned demonstration should be a complete non-event.

  7. #57
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    Default Re: June 16th come ruin it for everybody with us in Abington PA

    Quote Originally Posted by gnbrotz View Post
    I do agree completely with the referenced quote above. I also understand the concept of going "too far", even when practicing legal activity.

    I do not believe my planned actions cross that line. If I did wish to really push the envelope, I would actually wear a "Fuck The Police" shirt, complete with a skull face mask, black ball cap, and sunglasses - just as Antifa likes to do while they exercise their 1A recognized rights. All legal, but guaranteed to stir folks up, and likely to justify police intervention. Based on the Chief's own public statement, our planned demonstration should be a complete non-event.
    The reason i quoted Leonard Embody, AKA "Kwikrnu", is because he posted that he didn't care who he hurt, people didn't support him and they deserved to lose their rights. In effect, he said "Don't exercise you're rights or you'll lose them" means nothing to me, and I'm not concerned one bit about how my actions may affect those who take that stance.

    He's been banned from pretty much every gun board, and any other board, because he picks stupid fights and betrays his own side. He was actively trying to get various rifle calibers banned by claiming to be developing pistols for them, and his stated purpose was to get them banned as "pistol caliber armor piercing handgun ammo."

    Don't be him. Don't even head in his direction. I'm saying this as your friend. I'd want my friends to warn me if I was headed off to vote for Democrats or get a Hillary tattoo or do some other dumbass thing.

    Scaring soccer moms is not going to help the firearms community one bit, and it may contribute to electing the very politicians who will pass more gun control and appoint anti-gun judges who infringe your rights. Pennsylvania is a "blue state", it's Philly and Pittsburgh and some Hispanic colonies, with a shrinking portion of conservatives who are dying out. Try not to help the enemy.
    Attorney Phil Kline, AKA gunlawyer001@gmail.com
    Thanks to all who attended my Firearms Law Workshops this year!

  8. #58
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    Default Re: June 16th come ruin it for everybody with us in Abington PA

    Quote Originally Posted by GunLawyer001 View Post
    The reason i quoted Leonard Embody, AKA "Kwikrnu", is because he posted that he didn't care who he hurt, people didn't support him and they deserved to lose their rights. In effect, he said "Don't exercise you're rights or you'll lose them" means nothing to me, and I'm not concerned one bit about how my actions may affect those who take that stance.

    He's been banned from pretty much every gun board, and any other board, because he picks stupid fights and betrays his own side. He was actively trying to get various rifle calibers banned by claiming to be developing pistols for them, and his stated purpose was to get them banned as "pistol caliber armor piercing handgun ammo."

    Don't be him. Don't even head in his direction. I'm saying this as your friend. I'd want my friends to warn me if I was headed off to vote for Democrats or get a Hillary tattoo or do some other dumbass thing.

    Scaring soccer moms is not going to help the firearms community one bit, and it may contribute to electing the very politicians who will pass more gun control and appoint anti-gun judges who infringe your rights. Pennsylvania is a "blue state", it's Philly and Pittsburgh and some Hispanic colonies, with a shrinking portion of conservatives who are dying out. Try not to help the enemy.
    But what's one to do when those soccer moms feel threatened by a police officer while he's eating a meal in a restaurant while carrying because he's in uniform? What do you do with those soccer moms who feel so threatened when they see a legally carried handgun on the side of a customer's waist in a supermarket, that they leave their cart full of groceries and leave without checking out AND tells the manager that the reason she's leaving is because she saw that gun toting customer in the check out line? I can continue with many more examples, but I'm sure you've heard or read about them over the last few years.

    Did you see the recent Facebook video where a South Carolina resident, driving in Virginia was pulled over and threatened with bodily harm all because she was black? She made a video shortly after receiving the speeding ticket. She was beside herself because of the way she was harassed and threatened by the white trooper.

    BUT, the police released the body cam video of the incident. Things didn't go anywhere near what the woman described. As a matter of fact, she insisted that she would not sign the ticket. She calmed down after the trooper told her she would be arrested if she didn't sign the ticket.

    Those who lie to try to make their point are all over the spectrum. There will be those who will LIE TO YOUR FACE in order to prove their point.

    So how are you ever going to overcome that type of person? The type of person, is almost the entire Liberal body in the United States today. They will do anything to make their narrative what the country sees in print and on TV. How do we get our point across to the public IF we have to constantly deal with this?

    In my opinion, this is EXACTLY what got this kid in trouble. He wasn't doing ANYTHING illegal. He was perfectly within his rights to walk in his community carrying a long gun. He was not brandishing the weapon. He was not trespassing on private property. The police actually interviewed the kid and determine he was not breaking any laws AND was safe to the community. THEN a "friend or friends" posted on Facebook that he said something, one instance was a year ago, and now he's being evaluated? Come on, even Stevie Wonder can see the travesty of this move by the local government.

    If the kid is in need of help, I hope he gets it, but for me, this move stinks and until I see irrefutable proof, I'm of the opinion this was not a public safety issue but a strong arm, government intervention without lawful means.

  9. #59
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    Default Re: June 16th come ruin it for everybody with us in Abington PA

    Hiding, appeasing, and trying to win hearts and minds will not work. It has never worked. It will also give the impression that everyone agrees with the hypothetical liberal soccer moms many in this thread are so concerned with. And that will encourage politicians to pass the very laws you are all so concerned about.

    Demonstrating that people are concerned about this, and that we are aware of the law, are not dangerous, and are paying attention to the actions of police is a message that our friends and allies need to hear and see.

    The statement "Just because you can do something doesn't mean that you should." reminds me of a line in the song Know Your Rights by The Clash: "You have the right to free speech, as long as you're not dumb enough to actually try it."
    If you don't know who your state legislators are go here:
    http://www.legis.state.pa.us/index.cfm
    put your zip plus 4 in the box in the upper right hand corner.

  10. #60
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    Default Re: June 16th come ruin it for everybody with us in Abington PA

    Yeah, that's the take away I always got from the open carry discussions of years gone by.

    If you want to keep the right to open carry, it's best that you don't open carry, or they will make it illegal.

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