Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Default OPEN CARRY: Rookie Cop With Attitudes???

    Before I even go to any of those links, I know at least one of them is going to mention Commonwealth v. Hawkins. Whether or not it's legal to open carry a firearm in the Commonwealth, you can bet your ass a person will be cited for DC when we get half a dozen Man with a Gun calls when some gun know-it-all walks into Red Lobster or Bank of America with a hand cannon pulling his pants down unless there is some kind of lawfully issued badge or ID next to it. I have the right to stop and question a person openly carrying a firearm, and if their attitude is off or they become visibly nervous, they'll be detained.

    If any of you new gun owners out there are really looking to get into firearms, take a safety course and get your Concealed Carry permit. You could always follow some of the other advice found here, but don't think for a second that you will never once be stopped and possibly detained for carrying openly.
    I provided links when asked for a source to prove that open carry was legal in PA (and did so with statutes and case law) so long as state and federal laws were followed. That is the response that I got from a fresh out of school cop.

    How do I answer this one? And yes, arguing on the internet IS retarded!

    EDIT: ANSWER.

    My reply:


    So you are openly admitting to knowing that the LAW states that open carry is legal (so long as state and federal laws are also followed).

    However, you would blatantly IGNORE the law, even though you took an oath when you were sworn in to uphold the law????? So you would charge a law abiding citizen with a crime in which they did not commit?

    I hope you have a good attorney. I also hope your department has a good attorney, and lastly, I hope that they are well aware of the antics that you are willing to play.

    You are NOT above the law, and the recent rash of lawsuits and out of court settlements involving open carry are continuing to prove this. I hope that you wise up, and don't find yourself in such a position by harassing the very citizens that you are serving.

    On that note, I have been fortunate enough to not be harassed and illegally charged with a crime in which I did not commit while open carrying. All of my encounters have been pleasant with police, with nice conversations. Rarely do I open carry, but when I do, I will continue to keep in mind the jackassery in which some officers are willing to participate in.

    Shame on you for your willingness to blatantly disregard the law. It's truly pathetic when "the law" no longer follows the law. Get over it. Again, you are NOT above the law.



    I am hoping that he responds by stating that his superiors told him that this is the correct action. Perhaps then, the department can be mailed/handed flyers?


    EDIT: IT GETS WORSE!

    Thing about the law and people who stand behind the constitution is that it allows gray area. Officers have what is called discretion, and if a disturbance is caused because you feel like you can walk around all day like Ranger Rick, it's going to be handled as seen fit by the responding officer and his department and settled off the street. Don't come down on me and attack my like you're a grand justice because I typed of a theoretical scenario and listed one of the ways it could be handled. The thread has been reported and asked to be cleaned up so that you're uneducated attack towards me doesn't negatively affect my image.

    DOUBLE EDIT:

    Now that I've had the time to read over all the pages and sources posted, I can admit to being wrong and not knowing everything, and you shouldn't expect us to. There are so many laws and caselaws, it's almost rediculous (let alone I don't really see a purpose to open carry unless you're on a farm). Maybe you can back off my dick now with your personal attacks towards me, ITSTOCK. Go teach at a police academy if you like to "inform" (breaking ****ing balls) so much.

    I will let this one slide....partially, after that response.
    Last edited by itstock; September 24th, 2008 at 07:57 PM.

  2. #2
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    Talking Re: OPEN CARRY: Rookie Cop With Attitudes???

    Quote Originally Posted by itstock View Post
    I provided links when asked for a source to prove that open carry was legal in PA (and did so with statutes and case law) so long as state and federal laws were followed. That is the response that I got from a fresh out of school cop.

    How do I answer this one?
    Ask him if he likes lawsuits....
    Please visit my Website for Exotic ammunition and 37mm goodies... http://gunshowgoods.com

  3. #3
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    Default Re: OPEN CARRY: Rookie Cop With Attitudes???

    You could always ask him if HE has a good attorney since should he follow up with his threats there is no doubt that he will be sued, possibly multiple times. You might also suggest that he ask his supervisor(s) about the departments policy and the department's attorneys since they will both be involved in any litigation that he faces because he decided to ignore state law.
    Bill USAF 1976 - 1986, NRA Endowment, USCCA

  4. #4
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    Default Re: OPEN CARRY: Rookie Cop With Attitudes???

    Yeah, the lawsuit thing... especially since he KNOWS the law and overtly admits he'll disregard it.

    Here's how I would reply:

    "Officer, are you saying that, even though you KNOW open carry is legal, you'd still behave in contradiction to the law, merely to show some "gun know-it-all" who's boss? I was under the impression that you took an oath to uphold the law. Are you saying that you'll disregard that oath based upon the attitude of someone who is, technically-speaking, not in violation of any law?"

    /and then cross the index finger of each hand onto the other and, in three whittling motions to correspond with each word, say "Shame On You!"
    Last edited by Robert Kayland; September 24th, 2008 at 02:36 PM.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: OPEN CARRY: Rookie Cop With Attitudes???

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Kayland View Post
    Yeah, the lawsuit thing... especially since he KNOWS the law and overtly admits he'll disregard it.

    Here's how I would reply:

    "Officer, are you saying that, even though you KNOW open carry is legal, you'd still behave in contradiction to the law, merely to show some "gun know-it-all" who's boss? I was under the impression that you took an oath to uphold the law. Are you saying that you'll disregard that oath based upon the attitude of someone who is, technically-speaking, not in violation of any law?"

    /and then cross the index finger of each hand onto the other and, in three whittling motions to correspond with each word, say "Shame On You!"
    That sounds like a good response. But I would leave out the "technically-speaking" part. It's black and white. No law is being broken. Period.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: OPEN CARRY: Rookie Cop With Attitudes???

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Kayland View Post
    Yeah, the lawsuit thing... especially since he KNOWS the law and overtly admits he'll disregard it.

    Here's how I would reply:

    "Officer, are you saying that, even though you KNOW open carry is legal, you'd still behave in contradiction to the law, merely to show some "gun know-it-all" who's boss? I was under the impression that you took an oath to uphold the law. Are you saying that you'll disregard that oath based upon the attitude of someone who is, technically-speaking, not in violation of any law?"

    /and then cross the index finger of each hand onto the other and, in three whittling motions to correspond with each word, say "Shame On You!"
    I like it! Keep the suggestions coming, as my response would have been much harsher.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: OPEN CARRY: Rookie Cop With Attitudes???

    Quote Originally Posted by BerksCountyDave View Post
    That sounds like a good response. But I would leave out the "technically-speaking" part. It's black and white. No law is being broken. Period.
    Technically-speaking merely means "according to the actual written law", i.e., the "technics" of the matter... it is not meant to attenuate the actual right/wrong of the situation... that's a false connotation that people wrongly assume when we hear the phrase.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: OPEN CARRY: Rookie Cop With Attitudes???

    Quote Originally Posted by itstock View Post
    I like it! Keep the suggestions coming, as my response would have been much harsher.
    Well, how much harsher can you get than that "Shame On You!" with the fingers?

    /my mom's was deadly
    Last edited by Robert Kayland; September 24th, 2008 at 03:02 PM.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: OPEN CARRY: Rookie Cop With Attitudes???

    Quote Originally Posted by itstock View Post
    I provided links when asked for a source to prove that open carry was legal in PA (and did so with statutes and case law) so long as state and federal laws were followed. That is the response that I got from a fresh out of school cop.

    How do I answer this one?
    Laws are not passed to tell people what they can do; laws are passed to tell people what they can't do. There is no law that prohibits open carrying.

    As for the rest, tell him he is an agent of tyranny.
    Last edited by ThomasJ; September 24th, 2008 at 03:03 PM.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: OPEN CARRY: Rookie Cop With Attitudes???

    What about official oppression? He states he knows the law and he will blatantly disregard it.

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