Teachers carrying question

[internet troll]

I know there are threads about whether or not teachers should carry, but I have not seen any threads about what the expectations of teachers who carry are. That’s what I would like to talk about in this thread.

I’m in my 22nd year of teaching high school students. I have always hated the fact that as a citizen I am disarmed for a good part of the day. To and from work as well as if anything were to happen at work. I would be fine with teachers (and others) being allowed to carry on the premise that citizens should not be disarmed by the government at any point in their life.

My question is, if a bill were passed that allowed teachers the option to carry, what do you envision that to encompass?

Do you envision teachers open carrying like the police, or concealed carrying so no one knows?

Do you expect teachers who are carrying to go out and try to actively engage the shooter, or do you expect the teacher to stay with their particular students and primarily protect them? With that teacher taking a shot if the opportunity arises because the shooter is coming in their room or is in their area.







The school I teach at is large. I have thought about what if an armed intruder comes in often. There are tons of scenarios depending on the time of day, where I am at etc..... that come into play. But for the majority of the day I am in one classroom teaching, so I will address that and how I have envisioned my role.

There are a lot of assessments that would have to take place quickly, is the shooter near the room or elsewhere, is there a chance to get out of the building, is sheltering in place better, the list goes on and on.

For the most part I see my role as protecting the group of kids in my room when the shooting starts and any in the hallways who I can quickly get in the room. If a shooting happens during class time and we are trapped in the room, I have things set up where we can quickly barricade ourselves in and make it harder for others to get in. If it is a real situation I can lock the door. I have a 6x3 table I can put in front of the door, backed by 2 heavy cabinets which can be quickly put in place and braced by a couple of other tables and my desk. (Really bad drawing at the end). I would have the students flip over desks so that there would be an extra barrier between the students and any incoming bullets. I also have various objects for myself and that I can give to anyone who wants to fight back if someone gets in.

This is where I see the role of most armed teachers, defending themselves and their students should the opportunity present itself. If someone comes into that room I want to stop them and protect the students in that room. I want to do more than be a meat shield for my students. If I were to go and try to find the shooter in the hallway I am leaving my students unprotected and they have no ideas of my plan for an active shooter situation which could put them in a bad situation.

If a law were passed I see myself carrying concealed like I do outside of school. No one knows I have a gun and that’s the way I like it. I do not see myself going through the school tracking a shooter, but staying with my students and protecting them unless I assess an opportunity arising where I can take a shooter out.

One last question for those who are opposed to teachers carrying. Why? I assume most here are in favor of the 2nd and the belief that the 2nd basically codifies the natural right to self defense. Why do you think teachers should give up this right when they go to work? It seems that when supporters of the 2nd talk about how they don’t think teachers (or anyone) should carry in school (and as I said earlier, I think every law abiding citizen should be able to carry anyplace they need to defend themselves, not just teachers) they are basically saying "I believe in the 2nd......but except for". And those type of statements always weaken the 2nd on the whole.


Anyway, my crappy drawing of how I would set my room up in an active shooter situation to try and keep someone out. It might not keep a really determined shooter out, but may make it enough trouble tat they will leave my students alone.


[IMG][/IMG]

[olderguy]

Does your door open in or out?

[Mitch10mm]

I have no expectations. Just like on the street. It all depends on the situation and I still have no expectations of what someone else should do.

Schools need to be secure but I can think of a half dozen scenarios off the top of my head where a large number of students, kids or people can be shot by a person that isn’t all that determined.

I’ve been called cold. I say this is the price of freedom. In today’s society, with not much value placed on life, morality, honor, it’s a price we will pay. And yes, i think it’s worth it.

What happens when some kid decides to make an IED? Or be a suicide bomber on his school bus? What object gets blamed? What will they ban? That’s their answer to all societal ills, ban, make a law. Treat the symptom not the true problem

[RockIsland]

The reason for being an armed teacher is to protect your students.

Every situation is fluid and unique. There is no best response or plan for every situation. The primary plan, is do whatever it takes to protect those kids.

I think for most in a active shooter situation, guarding the door to your classroom would be the best way to do that.

If you are in the immediate area of the POS, engage and try your best to stop the threat. At the very least, incoming fire is going to force them to switch from offense to defense. That alone would most likely save lives. Any defensive action could save lives by simply distracting them.

A good percentage of these depraved assholes off themselves too, when confronted with armed opposition.

I think planning for possible scenarios is helpful. Defensive AS drills would help instead of just practicing running and hiding.

You need to be proficient with your sidearm. I think there should be a minimum qualification standard for teachers carrying all day at school. I'm not a mandatory training advocate, but a teacher protecting our kids with a firearm, should show that they are able to pass a basic range safety and shooting qualification. Any further training a teacher would elect to take should be paid for by the school district.

Teachers are already vetted to work with children. If they have thier LTCF, then no other screening should be required.

Also, repeal the Gun Free School Zone law.

[GunLawyer001]

It should be concealed carry, and teachers shouldn't talk about it. Otherwise, the kids will figure out which teacher is armed, and the shooters are often part of the student body so they'll know, too.

The point is to keep potential shooters unsure, so they won't attack.

The example I use is this: I'll pay you $100 to walk from one end of a football field to the other. Sure, that's an easy C-note, who wouldn't do it? Except, there's at least one land mine buried undetectably in the field. Maybe more. Still interested?

[john9001]

The teachers would be acting in a defensive role.

Also.

It is very rare for a lone shooter to attack a place that has armed people defending it.

[Sandcut]

I've been thinking about this quite a bit lately.

I personally believe that the teachers should be required to have some level of training more than just getting a LTCF and should be required to qualify at some level to demonstrate proficiency with their sidearm. I don't see this as a bad thing. This would be paid for by the teacher, but reimbursed through the school after some length of service (such as a year) similar to how lifeguards are reimbursed for their lifeguard training.

All firearms should be concealed and NEVER off-body. No locked storage in desks or safes. If you're going to carry it, carry it. Only administration and those teachers that participate are to know who is eligible to carry.

As far as duties during a shooting, it would depend largely upon where they were at the time in relation to the shooter. It wouldn't be smart to send an armed teacher to the far side of the school to engage one shooter if there were two and one served as a distraction. But by the same token, if the shooter was around the corner, I'd have a hard time living with myself if I just herded my kids into my classroom and didn't try to keep them from shooting up the next room over. It would need to be some kind of zone defense (for want of a better term) and hopefully you'd have enough teachers carrying that you'd have overlapping zones.

[scruff]

It should be concealed carry, and teachers shouldn't talk about it. Otherwise, the kids will figure out which teacher is armed, and the shooters are often part of the student body so they'll know, too.

The point is to keep potential shooters unsure, so they won't attack.

The example I use is this: I'll pay you $100 to walk from one end of a football field to the other. Sure, that's an easy C-note, who wouldn't do it? Except, there's at least one land mine buried undetectably in the field. Maybe more. Still interested?

It'll be very hard for them to truly conceal. Nobody notices that I carry. A teacher has all eyes on him or her for an hour at a time. Kids are curious, they'll try to figure out who's carrying. That tiny bulge when you move a certain way, or the Crossbreed clip over the belt, all the things that normally go unseen, will be noticed by the kids.

Not to mention that typical deep-concealment guns are not effective weapons against a school shooter. I'd hope they'd be carrying more than a S&W Bodyguard or Shield.

[Spirit of 76]

I know there are threads about whether or not teachers should carry, but I have not seen any threads about what the expectations of teachers who carry are. That’s what I would like to talk about in this thread.

I’m in my 22nd year of teaching high school students. I have always hated the fact that as a citizen I am disarmed for a good part of the day. To and from work as well as if anything were to happen at work. I would be fine with teachers (and others) being allowed to carry on the premise that citizens should not be disarmed by the government at any point in their life.

My question is, if a bill were passed that allowed teachers the option to carry, what do you envision that to encompass?

Do you envision teachers open carrying like the police, or concealed carrying so no one knows?

Do you expect teachers who are carrying to go out and try to actively engage the shooter, or do you expect the teacher to stay with their particular students and primarily protect them? With that teacher taking a shot if the opportunity arises because the shooter is coming in their room or is in their area.







The school I teach at is large. I have thought about what if an armed intruder comes in often. There are tons of scenarios depending on the time of day, where I am at etc..... that come into play. But for the majority of the day I am in one classroom teaching, so I will address that and how I have envisioned my role.

There are a lot of assessments that would have to take place quickly, is the shooter near the room or elsewhere, is there a chance to get out of the building, is sheltering in place better, the list goes on and on.

For the most part I see my role as protecting the group of kids in my room when the shooting starts and any in the hallways who I can quickly get in the room. If a shooting happens during class time and we are trapped in the room, I have things set up where we can quickly barricade ourselves in and make it harder for others to get in. If it is a real situation I can lock the door. I have a 6x3 table I can put in front of the door, backed by 2 heavy cabinets which can be quickly put in place and braced by a couple of other tables and my desk. (Really bad drawing at the end). I would have the students flip over desks so that there would be an extra barrier between the students and any incoming bullets. I also have various objects for myself and that I can give to anyone who wants to fight back if someone gets in.

This is where I see the role of most armed teachers, defending themselves and their students should the opportunity present itself. If someone comes into that room I want to stop them and protect the students in that room. I want to do more than be a meat shield for my students. If I were to go and try to find the shooter in the hallway I am leaving my students unprotected and they have no ideas of my plan for an active shooter situation which could put them in a bad situation.

If a law were passed I see myself carrying concealed like I do outside of school. No one knows I have a gun and that’s the way I like it. I do not see myself going through the school tracking a shooter, but staying with my students and protecting them unless I assess an opportunity arising where I can take a shooter out.

One last question for those who are opposed to teachers carrying. Why? I assume most here are in favor of the 2nd and the belief that the 2nd basically codifies the natural right to self defense. Why do you think teachers should give up this right when they go to work? It seems that when supporters of the 2nd talk about how they don’t think teachers (or anyone) should carry in school (and as I said earlier, I think every law abiding citizen should be able to carry anyplace they need to defend themselves, not just teachers) they are basically saying "I believe in the 2nd......but except for". And those type of statements always weaken the 2nd on the whole.


Anyway, my crappy drawing of how I would set my room up in an active shooter situation to try and keep someone out. It might not keep a really determined shooter out, but may make it enough trouble tat they will leave my students alone.


[IMG][/IMG]

Please see these devices which can be deployed within seconds. They can buy time (if an active shooter is intent on breaching a door by shooting through the lock or window) to barricade or to escape.

Why these affordable devices are not being deployed in all schools is beyond my grasp. I am not affiliated with the company in any way.

[Mentch171]

or the Crossbreed clip over the belt, all the things that normally go unseen, will be noticed by the kids.

.

I always thought their clips were a stupid ass idea. They’re a dead give away to anyone that has even seen one before.

Not to mention that typical deep-concealment guns are not effective weapons against a school shooter. I'd hope they'd be carrying more than a S&W Bodyguard or Shield.

Something is better than nothing at all.