trajedy in FL

[Lexington]

Instead of using vulgarities and calling people names why don't you back up your opinion with logic. Are you ok with private person to person sales to strangers? Even this board recommends going to an FFL for a transfer. It is a way for people who can't pass a background check to get access to guys? I would be willing to concede that to get. More permission to carry in places like schools.

I'm all for private transactions of firearms. Done it a couple times, though both times were purchases rather than sales. Don't yet have a sizable enough collection that I feel like trading with. Sure, it's possible for a prohibited person to get their hands on a weapon through a face-to-face transaction, but that person could just as easily get one on the black market if they really wanted to. I don't see how banning private transactions will affect anyone, other than law-abiding citizens. Same goes with any proposed gun ban. All that'll do is affect those who intend to follow the law anyway. Someone bent on criminal mischief or terrorism will find the gun, whether they have to buy it in the inner city or steal it. Don't penalize us.

Also, don't expect any concession to work with the other side. I agree that your heart's in the right place, but look at the past for examples of this. Over the years we've allowed our rights to be chipped away. First licensing came into effect rather than people being allowed to carry because, well, they're citizens and entitled to the right to keep (own) and bear (carry) arms. Then came the machine gun ban because, hey, mobsters are shooting up the town. Let's ban machine guns so they can't get them. Oh, wait, they can still get them because they're criminals and they don't follow the law! Then came the "assault" weapons ban because of all the mass murder and mayhem they're causing! Except they're not really used in all that much crime to begin with...

And that's just on the federal level. Never mind the state bans going on in such wonderful places as New Jersey, New York, and California, to name a few of the worst offenders. What exactly have we gained through any of these compromises? The answer is nothing. Everything that has been gained for the firearm owners community - no, scratch that, for the citizenry of this fair land, has been through offensive action rather than tactical retreats. Move the ball forward on the field, yielding nothing. We don't have to be asses about it, either politically or conversationally, but we have to keep advancing our cause, even if it's only a few inches or yards at a time.

[krzmagister]

You are just like liberals ie you are putting words in my mouth and you are extremely patronizing. I want no registry. I know that it leads to confiscation. I am extremely educated. I even made it through University without becoming a mind washed progressive. I am willing to listen to your ideas. How do you want to make sure criminals and crazies don't get guns? I want access to guns but this kid in Florida and guy who shot the church in Texas should not have able to buy a gun by any means whether at an FFL or a private sale.

[c45man]

The antis have had a history of shooting themselves in the foot. Their rhetoric is so over the top, calling the NRA a terrorist organization, blaming republican congress more than the shooter for the tragedy. Eventually they destroy their own credibility even in our blame the gun society.

In the beginning of Obama's 2nd term, the dems had control of the senate. There was a real steamroller effect going on regarding passing some antigun legislation after sandy hook The dem leaders in the senate knew they did not have a chance outlawing a good many semi autos as well as restricting mags to a 10 round limit. The democrats knew they had to do something and Obama hatched a scheme for a so called universal backround check. The leftists pulled out all the stops and what transpired was a major league embarrassment for Obama in not being able to get his registration scheme past a senate controlled by his party. Even with that, the dems lost the senate in the very next election.

We should keep up the letter writing campaign and remind the politicians that we vote. There are more democratic senators that have to defend their senate seat than republicans and even the leftist media points out that democratic senators from pro gun states are not very apt to go overboard in their support for an anti gun agenda, doing so has not worked well for the democrats.

Keep in mind as well, it takes 60 votes to get legislation out of the senate which is referred to as a super majority.

[krzmagister]

I'm all for private transactions of firearms. Done it a couple times, though both times were purchases rather than sales. Don't yet have a sizable enough collection that I feel like trading with. Sure, it's possible for a prohibited person to get their hands on a weapon through a face-to-face transaction, but that person could just as easily get one on the black market if they really wanted to. I don't see how banning private transactions will affect anyone, other than law-abiding citizens. Same goes with any proposed gun ban. All that'll do is affect those who intend to follow the law anyway. Someone bent on criminal mischief or terrorism will find the gun, whether they have to buy it in the inner city or steal it. Don't penalize us.

Also, don't expect any concession to work with the other side. I agree that your heart's in the right place, but look at the past for examples of this. Over the years we've allowed our rights to be chipped away. First licensing came into effect rather than people being allowed to carry because, well, they're citizens and entitled to the right to keep (own) and bear (carry) arms. Then came the machine gun ban because, hey, mobsters are shooting up the town. Let's ban machine guns so they can't get them. Oh, wait, they can still get them because they're criminals and they don't follow the law! Then came the "assault" weapons ban because of all the mass murder and mayhem they're causing! Except they're not really used in all that much crime to begin with...

And that's just on the federal level. Never mind the state bans going on in such wonderful places as New Jersey, New York, and California, to name a few of the worst offenders. What exactly have we gained through any of these compromises? The answer is nothing. Everything that has been gained for the firearm owners community - no, scratch that, for the citizenry of this fair land, has been through offensive action rather than tactical retreats. Move the ball forward on the field, yielding nothing. We don't have to be asses about it, either politically or conversationally, but we have to keep advancing our cause, even if it's only a few inches or yards at a time.

Thank you for clearly making and argument and giving me something to consider than is rational, well thought-out and polite. After reading this forum I was starting to get worried. I see your point and I'll have to digest it.

[Yoder]

1.Well at least your honest and we can have a debate in the public forum about universal background checks. I think that the time has come for that. It is an obvious run around the law. I'm surprised terrorists haven't used private sales to get guns. What would you like to do to see that prohibited persons don't buy guns?
2. In the classifieds of this board it does say that an FFL is the only way to be sure someone can legally own a gun. Read it your self.
3. Finally , I never suggested you were a gunnut that wanted a Glock in every backpack a tank in every garage and a nuke in every back yard. I take umbrage that you say I'm anti second amendment and a leftist. I stand up for gun owners everyday. Im a teacher and I work with progressives. I even invite them to the range and take them shooting on my dime. I try to be the model of a responsible gun owner. I think AR-15s and high capacity mags should be legal and necessary for protection against criminals and an out of control government.

Some of you guys are more difficult to talk to than the liberals with who I work. You need to be more civil and not jump to conclusions.

I used to have some similar views. I once thought it might be a good idea to make everyone pass some kind of class to be able to carry a firearm concealed. Sounds logical enough. Everyone wants people to be safe with their gun. Then quite a few of the people here educated me as to what the second amendment is really about. It's a right. Just like freedom of speech and religion. You shouldn't need a license or have to take a class to exercise a right. Once you start requiring a class you open the door for government to make standards that average people would not be able to pass. Even if they were reasonable, what if you are 85 yrs old and just need to be able to pull the trigger to defend yourself. You might not be capable of meeting some marksmanship requirements. The defenseless people are the ones who need it the most.

I also understand your concern about private sales. I can see both sides of this. It does open the door for people who are not allowed to own a firearm. It also keeps the Government from knowing where all the guns are, which I think is more important. I'm not paranoid. I don't think our government is going to turn into Nazi Germany in the next 5 years. But what about in the next 50? If we keep going down this road of Socialism it's not going to end well. Stalin, Hitler and Mao can all attest to that.

[krzmagister]

Sorry this is directed at gunswater and his last post.

You are just like liberals ie you are putting words in my mouth and you are extremely patronizing. I want no registry. I know that it leads to confiscation. I am extremely educated. I even made it through University without becoming a mind washed progressive. I am willing to listen to your ideas. How do you want to make sure criminals and crazies don't get guns? I want access to guns but this kid in Florida and guy who shot the church in Texas should not have able to buy a gun by any means whether at an FFL or a private sale.

[krzmagister]

I used to have some similar views. I once thought it might be a good idea to make everyone pass some kind of class to be able to carry a firearm concealed. Sounds logical enough. Everyone wants people to be safe with their gun. Then quite a few of the people here educated me as to what the second amendment is really about. It's a right. Just like freedom of speech and religion. You shouldn't need a license or have to take a class to exercise a right. Once you start requiring a class you open the door for government to make standards that average people would not be able to pass. Even if they were reasonable, what if you are 85 yrs old and just need to be able to pull the trigger to defend yourself. You might not be capable of meeting some marksmanship requirements. The defenseless people are the ones who need it the most.

I also understand your concern about private sales. I can see both sides of this. It does open the door for people who are not allowed to own a firearm. It also keeps the Government from knowing where all the guns are, which I think is more important. I'm not paranoid. I don't think our government is going to turn into Nazi Germany in the next 5 years. But what about in the next 50? If we keep going down this road of Socialism it's not going to end well. Stalin, Hitler and Mao can all attest to that.

Thanks and good point. I work with a German teacher who takes students every year to the National Holocaust museum. He thinks I'm nuts because I want a ar15 so my family and I won't be turned into soap an lampshades. He doesn't think it could ever happen here. He says I'm paranoid and need help.

[NathanB]

This guy passed a background check. So did most of the others. You want to keep guns out of bad guy and nut jobs? Prosecute with no exceptions anyone who straw purchases etc. or sells to a prohibited person. If you’re conducting a private sale then you better donyour due diligence. Or how about We stop hiding all these crazies behind doctor patient privilege and start sharing their mental health issues?

[NathanB]

Everyone talking gun control should really start with enforcing our current laws. I don’t need to be punished for the actions of someone else. Neither does any other law abiding gun owner. Fact of the matter is they don’t really care. They want to puff their chest or and say they tried. Feinstein has made a career out of doing nothing but

[JAKIII]

My parents and I were having the gun “control discussion” this morning during breakfast at the old folks home (both of them voted for Trump). Mom was not adverse to the idea of ‘raising the age requirement to 21 for long gun purchases’. Then I explained the “death by one thousand cuts” analogy and she understood that giving even one inch is a bad idea.