Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #21
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    Etters, Pennsylvania
    (York County)
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    Default Re: Isosceles vs Weaver Stances

    If I remember correctly a Deputy Sheriff from California by the name of "Weaver", developed the stance for Combat Shooting and competed against/with
    Jeff Cooper. It was also before the days of Body Armor. I remember competing in PPC(Practical Police Combat) with "Funny Guns". Tricked out Revolvers
    with Custom Barrels, cylinders, sights on a S&W mod 10 frame and actions. The actions were so smooth, that a large amount of shooters had their revolvers
    double action Only. More shooters started using the Weaver Stance, after all we were using 148g hollow base wad cutters. My pistols were made by Maryland
    Gun Works owner Lou Camillo. He moved his company to Atlanta known as MGW.
    FUNDAMENTALS

    "All that is needed for Evil to Prevail is for Good Men to
    do Nothing"

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Bridgeville, Pennsylvania
    (Allegheny County)
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    Default Re: Isosceles vs Weaver Stances

    I've been shooting Weaver since my first tac pistol class in 2002.

    Since then , over the course of additional training classes, the stance has been modified somewhat closer to an isosceles yet not completely square with the target.

    The feet are planted about shoulder width with my right foot about a shoe length behind the left.

    IIRC, the reason given was to have your feet planted in more of a fighting or boxing stance, easier to step off in any direction when having to shoot on the move while heading for cover.

    I have watched many people trying to shoot in Isosceles leaning back from the hips but have also seen people trying to shoot a Weaver like the Army guy pic with the leg very far behind the other. In both types of stances, I would say there is not enough correct practice to engrain it.

    Always open and still a student of the art, I'm going to give Jerry's Isoc a try.

    I guess I've always believed Isosceles to be a competitive stance as opposed to a self defense stance where in reality, should you need to present and shoot, who's to say what position you'll actually be in when you strt pressing rounds off.
    Guns and plumbing. They don't know what they don't know.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    In the can, Pennsylvania
    (Montgomery County)
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    Default Re: Isosceles vs Weaver Stances

    I was trained with isosceles many years ago and it has always been comfortable for me.
    This link I posted earlier lays it out very clearly in a 2 minute read.
    https://www.policeone.com/police-pro...right-for-you/

    I train a lot of novice shooters that have very little experience and who have gotten a carry license.
    What I tell them is that unless they shoot for a living, the idea is to keep it as simple as possible.
    Learn one basic method of shooting and practice it exclusively.
    They are just not going to put in enough hours to start confusing the issue with variety.

    I evaluate them to find out what they can or can't do, taking into account eyesight, coordination, back problems, disabilities, or anything else that may be a factor.
    Then I teach them to carry, draw, and shoot using some form of a modified isosceles that is comfortable for their personal situation.
    Once that is agreed upon, I train them to use it exclusively and to reinforce their muscle memory and safety habits at every opportunity.
    I remind them that they are not police or military, that they are essentially training to do just one thing, to survive a 1.5 second defensive gunfight, and that is the goal and focus of their training.
    How can you have any cookies if you don't drink your milk?

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
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    Middle of PA, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: Isosceles vs Weaver Stances

    Quote Originally Posted by 27hand View Post
    I've been shooting Weaver since my first tac pistol class in 2002.

    Since then , over the course of additional training classes, the stance has been modified somewhat closer to an isosceles yet not completely square with the target.

    The feet are planted about shoulder width with my right foot about a shoe length behind the left.
    Exactly how I shoot.
    The Constitution does not say that a person can yell wolf in a crowded theater.

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Isosceles vs Weaver Stances

    Shooting paper or steel I certainly shoot a modified Weaver....closer to isosceles as stated above. That said, I try to end each range session shooting from odd stances and positions. It's amazing how little stance actually has to do with hitting a target if you use proper sight alignment, sight picture and manipulate the trigger properly. If I ever find myself involved in a critical incident, I doubt I will be able to get into a perfect modified Weaver stance.

  6. #26
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    Mar 2017
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    PHILADELPHIA, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: Isosceles vs Weaver Stances

    When the SHTF you will use the stance you have at the moment of the encoutner. Last time I checked, those lethal force encounters don't allow for: "Oh, excuse me, BG, let me adopt my favorite stance." You're talking square range stuff here, not force on force. YMMV.

    TB605

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
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    Bridgeville, Pennsylvania
    (Allegheny County)
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    Default Re: Isosceles vs Weaver Stances

    Quote Originally Posted by TangoBravo605 View Post
    When the SHTF you will use the stance you have at the moment of the encoutner. Last time I checked, those lethal force encounters don't allow for: "Oh, excuse me, BG, let me adopt my favorite stance." You're talking square range stuff here, not force on force. YMMV.

    TB605

    If it happens on a square range, we're set.

    I would think most people on this thread understand what you said.

    BUT , the guys I know in day to day life firmly believe that just by having a gun, you know, the magic talisman, that they will simply rise to the occasion.
    Guns and plumbing. They don't know what they don't know.

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Isosceles vs Weaver Stances

    Yes, you got it right!!! And when they rise to the occasion, F up and make the incorrect decision while figuring out what stance to use , and then have to figure out how to justify their use of force, well, PA case law shows the outcome of their “talisman” belief.

    TB605

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
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    In the can, Pennsylvania
    (Montgomery County)
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    Default Re: Isosceles vs Weaver Stances

    Anyone that advocates that training is a waste of time is a fool.
    How can you have any cookies if you don't drink your milk?

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Isosceles vs Weaver Stances

    Quote Originally Posted by Berncly View Post
    Anyone that advocates that training is a waste of time is a fool.
    I will add that anyone that advocates that GOOD training is a waste of time is a fool. Throwing rounds down range just for the sake of shooting rounds isn't training. There is a time and place for random plinking. Each round needs to be meaningful in actual training. Repetitively doing the wrong thing is probably more harmful than no training at all.

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