PA state trooper disassenbled my gun during traffic stop

**Williamsmith** · March 16th, 2018, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by azalin

A 2011 report by the NYPD (http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloa...eport_2011.pdf , page 47) indicates that 71% of NDs between 2007-2011 while loading/unloading involved Glocks, and this was attributed to having to pull the trigger to disassemble the gun. I think a good way to describe the situation is that the Glock design has a lower safety margin than other systems. Someone blindly following their clearing ritual is likely to overlook a round in the chamber if they allow themselves to expect the chamber to always be empty.

I should add that the NYPD’s statistics do not mean that Glock owners are 71% more likely to have a ND than other gun owners. It’s not accurate to generalize from the NYPD data like that.

NDs from Glocks occur from either holstering or disassembly. Usually with holstering it’s a system that’s not a quality holster or is simply in poor condition allowing the garments to slip into the trigger guard or actually part of the holster degrades and protrudes into the guard. With disassembly, it’s negligence on the part of the person cleaning the firearm and failure to clear the gun. It has nothing to do with the gun itself. If you follow the rules of handling a firearm, maintain quality equipment and clear the chamber , NDs can be reduced appreciably. Glocks like nay other gun are only as safe as the people holding it.

**Williamsmith** · March 16th, 2018, 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by fallenleader

safety tube?

A device you point your gun into while unloading that will catch the bullet if you have a ND.

**Carson** · March 16th, 2018, 04:37 PM

Originally Posted by fallenleader

safety tube?

The safety device that you put the muzzle of a firearm in to safely unload when an unloading pit is not available.

Usually cylindrical, so therefore a tube.

Sorry, didn’t see that I was 12 minutes slow.

**markshere2** · March 16th, 2018, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by Williamsmith

Now that you’ve address part of my post......how about the other. Provide imperical evidence regarding Glocks increased likelihood to be involved in a ND. If you can’t then your opinion is baseless.

A) *Empirical

2. Google it yo own damn self.

thirdly, just 'cause Sig did it too, don't make it smart engineering.

**Carson** · March 16th, 2018, 04:45 PM

Originally Posted by Williamsmith

NDs from Glocks occur from either holstering or disassembly. Usually with holstering it’s a system that’s not a quality holster or is simply in poor condition allowing the garments to slip into the trigger guard or actually part of the holster degrades and protrudes into the guard. With disassembly, it’s negligence on the part of the person cleaning the firearm and failure to clear the gun. It has nothing to do with the gun itself. If you follow the rules of handling a firearm, maintain quality equipment and clear the chamber , NDs can be reduced appreciably. Glocks like nay other gun are only as safe as the people holding it.

I would like to see a Glock vs. German Luger ND comparison.

**Dave_n** · March 16th, 2018, 04:56 PM

Originally Posted by Carson

I would like to see a Glock vs. German Luger ND comparison.

I must admit, I have not had an ND or AD with either, but in the case of the Luger, you have to press the muzzle against a block of wood (or if a little crazy, your boot) to move the barrel and associated hardware back about 4 mm before you can release the catch on the left side. Just a trifle different than having to pull the trigger first. Dave_n

**Bang** · March 16th, 2018, 11:17 PM

Them double-action revolvers were always going off when holstering too. I guess. Don't know of any, but stands to reason.

**unclejumbo** · March 17th, 2018, 12:20 AM

Originally Posted by Williamsmith

Now that you’ve address part of my post......how about the other. Provide imperical evidence regarding Glocks increased likelihood to be involved in a ND. If you can’t then your opinion is baseless.

My opinion is not baseless. As someone that carried multiple Glocks professionally for over a decade, a firearms instructor, a gun carrier for over 30 years and a shooter for 45 years, I know what I'm talking about and I'm qualified to make the statement I've made. The design of the Glock is inherently less safe than other designs in regards to negligent discharges. If you understand firearms and how they function, it's easy to see why the statement is valid. I've explained the rationale.

Being able to put a thumb over a hammer when holstering makes an ND next to impossible.
Having a frame/slide safety engaged when holstering makes an ND next to impossible.
Having a grip safety that remains engaged when holstering makes an ND next to impossible.

A trigger safety is not, can not be as safe as other designs because the anomaly that engages the trigger also releases the safety. There is no redundancy on a striker fired/trigger-safety-only pistol that prevents the discharge of the firearm.

This isn't to say other designs are ND proof, we know people have fucked up with a variety of pistols. It's the lack of redundancy in the design. And no, I don't hate Glocks, I own 4 of them. I also own a couple of S&W M&Ps.

**Berncly** · March 17th, 2018, 12:36 AM

Interesting discussion.

**rwilson452** · March 17th, 2018, 12:46 AM

It seems to me, what people are getting at is most people have an instinctive reaction to put their trigger finger on the trigger. It takes training and constant practice to not do that. I own a XD that works the same way a Glock does as far as a "trigger safety". Of course, Springfield calls it something different than Glock does.