PA state trooper disassenbled my gun during traffic stop

[cdi]

Ahh.. but if he catches you in said lie, you're done. You've just handed him the lube, pulled down your pants, and given him every excuse to jam it home. Only difference is you will feel violated as all hell afterward and won't even have arrest papers to show for it.

If you lie about having a gun..and or somehow comes out that you do, you have satisfied both prongs of Terry that he needs to cuff and search you and your vehicle. You are 1) Armed and 2) you are now dangerous.

I hope you're not in the training bureau, lt.
Maybe you should go back and read Terry again.

[The Lieutenant]

I hope you're not in the training bureau, lt.
Maybe you should go back and read Terry again.

I've read Terry many, many times my friend, and I have read more case law than a human being probably should. You can dislike what I'm telling you all you like.

There are dumb cops and there are smart cops. You dont want to run into a smart cop who knows what he's doing and decide you want to play games like lying. Sure you can do it, there is nothing illegal about lying to a local or state Leo. BUt if you get caught there can be ramifications for doing so and it's called REASONABLE SUSPICION.

A wise man once told me that probable cause is like good stew . You start out with water...throw in some potatoes and some beef... some tomatoes... at some point you have soup...not stew but soup...and that's reasonable suspicion...you need more stuff for stew. Start lying and get caught...might as well hand me a can of Hungry Man.

[staylo]

I've read Terry many, many times my friend, and I have read more case law than a human being probably should. You can dislike what I'm telling you all you like.

There are dumb cops and there are smart cops. You dont want to run into a smart cop who knows what he's doing and decide you want to play games like lying. Sure you can do it, there is nothing illegal about lying to a local or state Leo. BUt if you get caught there can be ramifications for doing so and it's called REASONABLE SUSPICION.

A wise man once told me that probable cause is like good stew . You start out with water...throw in some potatoes and some beef... some tomatoes... at some point you have soup...not stew but soup...and that's reasonable suspicion...you need more stuff for stew. Start lying and get caught...might as well hand me a can of Hungry Man.

Reasonable suspicion of what? Doesn’t Terry require reasonable suspicion of a SPECIFIC crime having been, or being committed, and not just some unknown SOMETHING? If you have no reasonable suspicion of an actual and specific crime having been, or being committed before you find out the driver was not forthcoming regarding a concealed firearm(Assuming they have a valid LTCF), and if not being forthcoming about the firearm is not itself a crime, how does finding out about the firearm give you any new knowledge about an actual and specific crime? That sounds more like “RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!” That sounds more like, “I’ve taken it personally that you had the temerity to be untruthful when I asked you a question, so now I’m going to (to use your words) bend you over in anally rape you(metaphorically speaking), while I take your car and life apart until I can find something.”

[Rosco the Iroc]

[theduke]

A wise man once told me that probable cause is like good stew . You start out with water...throw in some potatoes and some beef... some tomatoes... at some point you have soup...not stew but soup...and that's reasonable suspicion...you need more stuff for stew. Start lying and get caught...might as well hand me a can of Hungry Man.

Here ya go

KOHA_Venison_Stew_Dog_13oz_3D_Final__69054.1505751906.jpg

[cdi]

Reasonable suspicion of what? Doesn’t Terry require reasonable suspicion of a SPECIFIC crime having been, or being committed, and not just some unknown SOMETHING? If you have no reasonable suspicion of an actual and specific crime having been, or being committed before you find out the driver was not forthcoming regarding a concealed firearm(Assuming they have a valid LTCF), and if not being forthcoming about the firearm is not itself a crime, how does finding out about the firearm give you any new knowledge about an actual and specific crime? That sounds more like “RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!” That sounds more like, “I’ve taken it personally that you had the temerity to be untruthful when I asked you a question, so now I’m going to (to use your words) bend you over in anally rape you(metaphorically speaking), while I take your car and life apart until I can find something.”

Right. That's just some of the things I'm thinking of. It comes down to a question of A-THOR-A-TIE. As the lt points out, if you lie to me I'll use whatever means at my disposal to make your life miserable.
That kind of attitude is an example of most cops being able to phuk up a bowling ball- and why the average Joe is starting to find LE a predatory pain in the ass.

It's unethical for the doughnut-chugger to take out his hurt feelings on the guy that lies about being armed, absent other circumstances.
The reason we (I) lie about it is because policemen do stupid, unnecessary stuff like the op posted.

[Carson]

Reasonable suspicion of what? Doesn’t Terry require reasonable suspicion of a SPECIFIC crime having been, or being committed, and not just some unknown SOMETHING? If you have no reasonable suspicion of an actual and specific crime having been, or being committed before you find out the driver was not forthcoming regarding a concealed firearm(Assuming they have a valid LTCF), and if not being forthcoming about the firearm is not itself a crime, how does finding out about the firearm give you any new knowledge about an actual and specific crime? That sounds more like “RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!” That sounds more like, “I’ve taken it personally that you had the temerity to be untruthful when I asked you a question, so now I’m going to (to use your words) bend you over in anally rape you(metaphorically speaking), while I take your car and life apart until I can find something.”

Depends on the context and facts.

A simple motor vehicle code violation and a firearm discovered, you get a ticket and get sent on your way.

A simple motor vehicle code violation, a firearm discovered, you fit the description of an armed robber and your explanation stinks, you won’t be leaving so soon.

In both scenarios you were originally stopped for one reason, but further facts developed.

[staylo]

Depends on the context and facts.

A simple motor vehicle code violation and a firearm discovered, you get a ticket and get sent on your way.

A simple motor vehicle code violation, a firearm discovered, you fit the description of an armed robber and your explanation stinks, you won’t be leaving so soon.

In both scenarios you were originally stopped for one reason, but further facts developed.

Well sure, what you’re describing is that the lie is one piece and a bigger puzzle that forms a picture of reasonable articulable suspicion. What the other guy seemed to be saying is that the lie itself is THE reasonable articulable suspicion.

[Carson]

Right. That's just some of the things I'm thinking of. It comes down to a question of A-THOR-A-TIE. As the lt points out, if you lie to me I'll use whatever means at my disposal to make your life miserable.
That kind of attitude is an example of most cops being able to phuk up a bowling ball- and why the average Joe is starting to find LE a predatory pain in the ass.

It's unethical for the doughnut-chugger to take out his hurt feelings on the guy that lies about being armed, absent other circumstances.
The reason we (I) lie about it is because policemen do stupid, unnecessary stuff like the op posted.

Absent other circumstances, sure, some cops will over reach. But there is a huge difference in pucker factor between sitting in the car knowing you have a firearm and not saying and standing at that same window not knowing the occupants intentions or motives. I have first hand experience of both positions, do you ?

[Krichardson]

I don't know if it is policy or not and I doubt that it is but I just don't see why a motorist's weapon would have to be disassembled.