Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #81
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    erie, Pennsylvania
    (Erie County)
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    Default Re: PA state trooper disassenbled my gun during traffic stop

    Quote Originally Posted by Williamsmith View Post
    I’m guessing this is a stop that occurred after 11pm, and they were looking for a DUI. Did they give you a “written” warning? If so, when you return the card to be signed upon correction of the bad taillight.....it’s a perfect time to make the complaint.

    So many things could go wrong. First of all....once they are in possession of that firearm they are required to do a background check and PICS to make sure you even legally possess it. If they give it back to you and you go home and shoot your girlfriend or rob a Sheetz on the way and kill the clerk......oh boy! These guys are stone heads and need to be set straight before they cost the Commonwealth a ton of money. I question their training and experience also.

    To say nothing of your exposure. What if the Trooper that you willingly gave your firearm to shoots his partner accidentally or “negligently” ? Guess who his wife or the injured partner is going to sue! When asked it’s time to say, “ if you feel legally justified to take it then do what you do I won’t resist but I’m not voluntarily handing it to you. I’m responsible for this but as soon as you take it, you are responsible for whatever happens while it’s in your possession.”

    They can fine you for the taillight but it gets withdrawn if you get it fixed within the time restraints.
    Required to do a PICS check? That's the first time I've ever heard that.

  2. #82
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    zelienople, Pennsylvania
    (Beaver County)
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    Default Re: PA state trooper disassenbled my gun during traffic stop

    Was the tail light really not working?

  3. #83
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Lake Effect, Pennsylvania
    (Crawford County)
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    Default Re: PA state trooper disassenbled my gun during traffic stop

    Quote Originally Posted by SevenMilePete View Post
    Required to do a PICS check? That's the first time I've ever heard that.
    Let me elaborate. If PSP takes a firearm into custody, prior to return, a PICS check will be done and you will be required to sign a document acknowledging receipt of the firearm the moment the PICS check is cleared. This is to prevent them from unwittingly returning a firearm to a prohibited person even though that person might be the record of sale owner.

    Now, did PSP take the OPs firearm into custody? I would argue they did. I don’t know under what authority they did so but the fact is they had complete possession and control and didn’t check whether the OP was a prohibited person before they returned it. Or did they?

  4. #84
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Newport, Pennsylvania
    (Perry County)
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    52
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    Default Re: PA state trooper disassenbled my gun during traffic stop

    I've heard of such shenanigans. PSP has a cross section of people just like society. Gun guys like me and ExFlyinguy and guys that come from cities and liberal havens that believe only they should be armed. Guys that are happy to see others armed and guys that are terrified by it. I had traffic stops with guns. Keep your hands on the wheel and we're good.

    I know guys that took the bullets from carry guns, guys that disassembled guns as described. Guys that thought they had to run carry guns for stolen.

    File a complaint, it's not procedure to disassemble someone's property.
    "A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself"

    "He created the game, played the game, and lost the game.... All under his own terms, by his own doing." JW34

    "Tolerance is the lube that helps slip the dildo of dysfunction into the ass of a civilized society." Plato

  5. #85
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
    (Philadelphia County)
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    Default Re: PA state trooper disassenbled my gun during traffic stop

    Quote Originally Posted by gooseSA40 View Post
    Before filing the complaint, I'd be filing RTK requests for:
    1) Audio / video of the traffic stop.
    2) Policies regarding traffic stops and firearms.
    3) Any reports made by the troopers regarding the traffic stop.

    Always have the incorrectly documented reports before filing the complaint.

    I am not sure what the chances are of him getting all of that info.

    But here is the complaint process:

    http://www.psp.pa.gov/contact/Pages/...rocedures.aspx

    I am actually surprised this happened with the PSP. Now with PPD, not so much.

  6. #86
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Phoenixville, Pennsylvania
    (Chester County)
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    Default Re: PA state trooper disassenbled my gun during traffic stop

    Quote Originally Posted by unclejumbo View Post
    I've heard of such shenanigans. PSP has a cross section of people just like society. Gun guys like me and ExFlyinguy and guys that come from cities and liberal havens that believe only they should be armed. Guys that are happy to see others armed and guys that are terrified by it. I had traffic stops with guns. Keep your hands on the wheel and we're good.

    I know guys that took the bullets from carry guns, guys that disassembled guns as described. Guys that thought they had to run carry guns for stolen.

    File a complaint, it's not procedure to disassemble someone's property.
    I get it and I'm not even try to dispute anything you've said, but I don't understand the logic. The guy was polite, I'm assuming the OP was polite, and compliant so it's not like when he gets his pistol back he's going to flip out and start shooting at the police like some bad Hollywood movie. It's also extremely unlikely that the OP by being annoyed about the incident is going to reassess his life and decide that carrying a gun isn't worth it.

    So if it's not for safety and it's not to annoy him into getting rid of his guns, then it's as if the guy is being an asshole just for the sake of being an asshole. Then again you did say PSP is a cross section of society and we know there are plenty of assholes in society so I guess there's the logic.
    "Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigues of supporting it." — Thomas Paine

  7. #87
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
    (Philadelphia County)
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    Default Re: PA state trooper disassenbled my gun during traffic stop

    Quote Originally Posted by Williamsmith View Post
    Let me elaborate. If PSP takes a firearm into custody, prior to return, a PICS check will be done and you will be required to sign a document acknowledging receipt of the firearm the moment the PICS check is cleared. This is to prevent them from unwittingly returning a firearm to a prohibited person even though that person might be the record of sale owner.

    Now, did PSP take the OPs firearm into custody? I would argue they did. I don’t know under what authority they did so but the fact is they had complete possession and control and didn’t check whether the OP was a prohibited person before they returned it. Or did they?
    If the weapon was not listed as stolen (a whole different story, I Know!) and the OP had a valid LTCF why would they have to do a PICS check? How would they even do a PICS check on the side of the road, at night ?

  8. #88
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    Nov 2017
    Location
    Brookhaven, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: PA state trooper disassenbled my gun during traffic stop

    Quote Originally Posted by ATBackpackin View Post
    Then again you did say PSP is a cross section of society and we know there are plenty of assholes in society so I guess there's the logic.
    Damn shame that professionalism doesn't always trump being an asshole.

  9. #89
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    wernersville, Pennsylvania
    (Berks County)
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    Default Re: PA state trooper disassenbled my gun during traffic stop

    Quote Originally Posted by Carson View Post
    I am not sure what the chances are of him getting all of that info.

    But here is the complaint process:

    http://www.psp.pa.gov/contact/Pages/...rocedures.aspx

    I am actually surprised this happened with the PSP. Now with PPD, not so much.
    To answer a few questions...this absolutely DID happen to me, It was about 9:15 at night and in a previous post somebody thought it was odd for the state police to do a traffic stop and I agree, it was odd because of the line of questioning the trooper who approached me asked. Both troopers were younger guys. The trooper who approached me asked me where I was coming from, I told him work, he asked where that was so I told him the address of the property I was working at ( I do property maintenance for a property management co) He asked me where I was going I told him home, he then asked me how long ago I had left work I told him I just left and was on my way home but he wasn't satisfied, he asked me if I had stopped anywhere on my way I said no...he asked me this several times...enough I thought it odd, so I thought through my travels and then said to him " well I pulled over for a min at the shopping center a few blocks back because I hit a bump with the work van and heard a box of nails fall and I wanted to pick them up before they were all over the place, I just pulled into the entrance to the shopping center jumped out and left the engine running, I was at the back of the van for like 20 seconds then on my way again. He then seemed satisfied and handed me back my licenses and that's when he told me what his partner had done. My work van is a grey 89 ford e150, it has that shady vehicle look to it sorta, even though I have ladder rack and ladders on roof, its obvious to all who see it what it is....its a work van.

    I called the local barracks today and spoke with a corporal somebody, who listened to me recall the events and listened to me state that I felt this was over the top and out of line, I then asked him if the troopers were trained to do this, he says yes they are. They feel the need to do so because law abiding compliant citizens sometimes become non compliant as soon as you give them their gun back and they will shoot an officer as he is walking away. I have never heard of this happening and guarantee you if a law abiding licensed carrying person shot a cop in the back it would be all over the news, the anti's would be shouting it from the mountain tops! I didn't say that to him I thought about it afterwards. I told him I was offended and that it was unacceptable, he said he is sorry I feel offended but the world we live in has gotten that bad that this is necessary, He asked me if all of the pieces of my gun were returned to me, I said to him I wouldn't be talking to you in this tone of voice if they hadn't (I was being respectful) I asked him what happens if something is lost or damaged, he says the pa state police are liable for it, Im thinking yeah right, the state police are going to admit to losing or damaging my firearms components and pay for them....I doubt it. I didn't say that to him though. I am going to call the state police internal affairs tomorrow on the above web page.
    Last edited by Joe88XJ; February 7th, 2018 at 10:31 PM.

  10. #90
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    127.0.0.1, Pennsylvania
    (Lancaster County)
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    Default Re: PA state trooper disassenbled my gun during traffic stop

    Last time I was stopped by PSP about 10 years ago or so, he asked if I had a firearm, I said I did. He asked where it was, I told him and he said ok and walked away.

    I guess maybe training has changed since then.
    Rules are written in the stone,
    Break the rules and you get no bones,
    all you get is ridicule, laughter,
    and a trip to the house of pain.

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