PA state trooper disassenbled my gun during traffic stop

[Royinmontco]

I’m sorry but I see all this a little different. Stop and stand in the officers shoes. Especially in this world now.

The officer that handed the firearm back said I don’t know you and I don’t hand assembled guns back to people I don’t know. Rightfully in my mind. They don’t know you.

So the OP "didnt know" the cop, yet they think its ok for him to hand them his gun. How is that any different?

[Sgt.K]

Youre damned if you do and damned if you dont. l was stopped about a year ago in PA for a traffic violation. I told the cop I was carrying, we BS'd guns for a bit and he let me go without a ticket. He did mention during our talk that he can see who has an LTCF or not and had I not told him, this stop wouldve gone differently...

Anybody else have problems with this?



I mean this:

He did mention during our talk that he can see who has an LTCF or not

is bad enough.



But this:

had I not told him, this stop wouldve gone differently...

is a steaming pile of bovine exhaust. Not everyone with their LTCF actually carries - some get it just to make it easier to transport to the range. Now this high-speed, low-drag badge holder is going to give one of the most law-abiding citizens in the country a hard time because he *might* be armed and didn't mention it, instead of concerning himself with the UNlicensed guy who actually *is* armed because his system didn't warn him first.

[PhillySoldier]

It actually happend not far from you Sgt K. I was in the Folcroft/Ridley Park area at the time.

[Daycrawler]

Anybody else have problems with this?

Yes its against the law, however the DL database and the LTCF database were somehow linked together. Its not right nor legal.


I mean this:is bad enough. Yes it is. Its should be considered a violation of the 4th. Its like an X-ray into your life style without your permission.



But this:is a steaming pile of bovine exhaust. Not everyone with their LTCF actually carries - some get it just to make it easier to transport to the range. Now this high-speed, low-drag badge holder is going to give one of the most law-abiding citizens in the country a hard time because he *might* be armed and didn't mention it, instead of concerning himself with the UNlicensed guy who actually *is* armed because his system didn't warn him first.

Yes and yet another violation if the Officer asks you if you are carrying your gun. None of his business and he should know it!

[ett]

Anybody else have problems with this?



I mean this:is bad enough.



But this:is a steaming pile of bovine exhaust. Not everyone with their LTCF actually carries - some get it just to make it easier to transport to the range. Now this high-speed, low-drag badge holder is going to give one of the most law-abiding citizens in the country a hard time because he *might* be armed and didn't mention it, instead of concerning himself with the UNlicensed guy who actually *is* armed because his system didn't warn him first.

Yes and yet another violation if the Officer asks you if you are carrying your gun. None of his business and he should know it!

Yes, yes, YES !
Totally agree with both of you.

I'm tired of this whole attitude; by government, police, fudds, etc..; of suspending citizen's rights in the name of officer safety.
Just creates another divide between police and the general populous. And is another step towards tyranny.

[Williamsmith]

Yes and yet another violation if the Officer asks you if you are carrying your gun. None of his business and he should know it!

Here’s where more interactions with legally carrying motorists are going to lead. An officer has you legally detained on a traffic stop. Any questions he asks, if he gets an answer it must be truthful. If you are deceptive he is approaching or possibly feels he has reasonable suspicion that criminal activity is a possibility. If he asks you if you are carrying and you don’t respond or tell him it’s none of his business, he will probbaly call for backup and remove you from the car and pat you down, sieze your handgun, and make the traffic stop into a drawn out investigative detention.

Once he knows you are armed, he can disarm you based on his perception of how cooperative or non cooperative you are and his comfort level. That ship has sailed. There is no way concealed carry permitees are going to preserve any option to not be disarmed by the police while on a traffic stop that was legally initiated by a observed violation or reasonable suspicion of criminal activity. Standard operating procedure is going to be, “Driver, are you armed?”

Now I expect in the not too distant future a law will be enacted in Pennsylvania that will not only require you to inform the officer immediately upon being stopped, but require you to submit to a pat down and allow the officer to disarm you. Failure to do so will result in your permit being suspended or revoked.

What good could come from two armed persons arguing over who has the legal right to do what along side the road? Especially, when you can view videos of people being shot by police for simply reaching in their glovebox, back pocket or even holding “something” that looked like a gun to an officer but turned out to be a wallet.

Police officers are really jumpy these days.

[Sgt.K]

Here’s where more interactions with legally carrying motorists are going to lead. An officer has you legally detained on a traffic stop. Any questions he asks, if he gets an answer it must be truthful. If you are deceptive he is approaching or possibly feels he has reasonable suspicion that criminal activity is a possibility. If he asks you if you are carrying and you don’t respond or tell him it’s none of his business, he will probbaly call for backup and remove you from the car and pat you down, sieze your handgun, and make the traffic stop into a drawn out investigative detention.

Once he knows you are armed, he can disarm you based on his perception of how cooperative or non cooperative you are and his comfort level. That ship has sailed. There is no way concealed carry permitees are going to preserve any option to not be disarmed by the police while on a traffic stop that was legally initiated by a observed violation or reasonable suspicion of criminal activity. Standard operating procedure is going to be, “Driver, are you armed?”

Now I expect in the not too distant future a law will be enacted in Pennsylvania that will not only require you to inform the officer immediately upon being stopped, but require you to submit to a pat down and allow the officer to disarm you. Failure to do so will result in your permit being suspended or revoked.

What good could come from two armed persons arguing over who has the legal right to do what along side the road? Especially, when you can view videos of people being shot by police for simply reaching in their glovebox, back pocket or even holding “something” that looked like a gun to an officer but turned out to be a wallet.

None of the above is appropriate under the Constitution.

Police officers are really jumpy these days.

This is where to focus.

[Williamsmith]

If you want a glimpse of what National Reciprocity will look like for the concealed carrier take a glance at Louisiana Law regarding requirements for concealed carriers: excerpt:

(2) A permittee armed with a handgun in accordance with this Section shall notify any police officer who approaches the permittee in an official manner or with an identified official purpose that he has a weapon on his person, submit to a pat down, and allow the officer to temporarily disarm him. Whenever a law enforcement officer is made aware that an individual is carrying a concealed handgun and the law enforcement officer has reasonable grounds to believe that the individual is under the influence of either alcohol or a controlled dangerous substance, the law enforcement officer may take temporary possession of the handgun and request submission of the individual to a department certified chemical test for determination of the chemical status of the individual. Whenever a law enforcement officer is made aware that an individual is behaving in a criminally negligent manner as defined under the provisions of this Section, or is negligent in the carrying of a concealed handgun as provided for in R.S. 40:1382, the law enforcement officer may seize the handgun, until adjudication by a judge, if the individual is issued a summons or arrested under the provisions of R.S. 40:1382. Failure by the permittee to comply with the provisions of this Paragraph shall result in a six-month automatic suspension of the permit.

http://www.lsp.org/pdf/chrulebook08.pdf

Constitution notwithstanding.

[Brownie 56]

Sounds reasonable to me. He doesn’t know you. Everyone needs to come home at the end of the day. Put yourself in his shoes.

[Sgt.K]

Sounds reasonable to me. He doesn’t know you. Everyone needs to come home at the end of the day. Put yourself in his shoes.

The trooper in the OP offered to have his partner put the gun back together before returning it. At that point, exactly what was gained by disassembly in the first place? Besides all the (many) potential pitfalls: absolutely nothing.

I have smarter shoes than that...