Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #171
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    Default Re: PA state trooper disassenbled my gun during traffic stop

    What aggravates the situation here is that the purpose of the traffic stop was to issue a warning for an inoperable taillight. Although the OP reported that he was questioned about his activities leading up to the traffic stop. So it appears the Troopers may have observed something that drew their attention to him and quite conveniently noticed a taillight out. A simple traffic stop turned into an investigatory detention after the OP was disarmed, questioned, issued a warning and his firearm returned disassembled.

    Any Trooper with more than a few years on the job would be familiar with a Glock as they carried .45 GAP Glock Model 37 followed by the Glock 21 in cheaper easier to obtain .45ACP not too long ago. However, negligent discharges or accidental discharges whichever way you want to view it supposedly caused them to change over to Sigs. At least two of these incidents resulted in the death of three innocent people.

    Which brings me to my point. If PSP would take Negligent discharge seriously and make it a mandatory immediate discharge from service as policy ....then accidental or negligent discharges by PSP would be unheard of and so would disarming legally law abiding concealed carrying motorists and fiddling around with their handguns unecessarily.

  2. #172
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    Jun 2010
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    In the can, Pennsylvania
    (Montgomery County)
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    Default Re: PA state trooper disassenbled my gun during traffic stop

    Quote Originally Posted by Walleye Hunter View Post
    I wouldn't spend money for a lawyer on that unless someone else was financing it.
    As I said before, this kind of situation may be something that a gun rights activist attorney would handle free of charge in order to accomplish some good for the 2A community.
    There is no case here, no required legal action, this is about using the event as a catalyst for positive change, and attempting to set a procedure for armed interaction with the police.
    Better to try to do it now instead of after some CC'ing motorist gets shot and killed for no reason.
    How can you have any cookies if you don't drink your milk?

  3. #173
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    May 2006
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    127.0.0.1, Pennsylvania
    (Lancaster County)
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    Default Re: PA state trooper disassenbled my gun during traffic stop

    You always hear about how the police followed their training when it comes to incidents. I'd be really interested to see the actual training documents as supplied by the PSP in regards to the disassembly of a firearm during a routine traffic stop.
    Rules are written in the stone,
    Break the rules and you get no bones,
    all you get is ridicule, laughter,
    and a trip to the house of pain.

  4. #174
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    Jun 2010
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    Ev, Pennsylvania
    (Bedford County)
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    Default Re: PA state trooper disassenbled my gun during traffic stop

    File a complaint, the serve then papers/bill to have the gun checked out and certified by a glock armorer of your choice to verify that it has not been tampered with while it was out of your sight. Get a lawyer to back the papers. And I would do the email chain, you could also cc some nra people on there, Fox News etc. overall make them sorry

  5. #175
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Wayne, Pennsylvania
    (Delaware County)
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    Default Re: PA state trooper disassenbled my gun during traffic stop

    Quote Originally Posted by Daycrawler View Post
    You should be pissed and file a complaint. Some guys are afraid of their own shadow and it sounds like you met one tonight!
    With all of the police being shot at and killed within the last few weeks...it doesn't surprise me. Even where I live these guys travel solo, but always have backup on the late night calls.

    Is this going to be the new normal? Who knows. But I will ask you this...if you were pulling someone over, in a shady part of town, would you take a couple extra steps to protect yourself or just ignore the precautionary steps and carry on?

    Until the Left stops whining about everything going on and the activists stop harrassing police, get used to it. This is what they want...
    "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable"

  6. #176
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    Jan 2010
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    Chester County, Pennsylvania
    (Chester County)
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    Default Re: PA state trooper disassenbled my gun during traffic stop

    It is possible that the officer took the gun apart to look for secret serial numbers he read about in the Mall Cop Gazette and couldn't figure out how to put it back together.
    Ya can't argue with figures. Two half nuthins is a whole nuthin.

  7. #177
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
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    Upper Darby, Pennsylvania
    (Delaware County)
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    Default Re: PA state trooper disassenbled my gun during traffic stop

    Quote Originally Posted by RenoV8 View Post
    But I will ask you this...if you were pulling someone over, in a shady part of town, would you take a couple extra steps to protect yourself or just ignore the precautionary steps and carry on?
    If you want to take an extra step then be a prick and toss the magazine into the back seat when you return the firearm you had no right (though, apparently, you have a court-protected policy) to seize in the first place. That will take the motorist extra time to reload before possibly turning his gun on you - in retaliation for taking his gun and being a prick during a traffic stop. Hmmm, ok, still not perfect...

    Regardless, you (generic Officer Friendly) are not a certified gunsmith. Knowing how to perform operator maintenance of *your* duty weapon, in a controlled location, with nobody around in the line of fire, is a far cry from finger f#$%ing a loaded, unknown piece on the side of the road. I've had my 1911 removed and cleared against my wishes once before. The next officer who, after being reminded that the safest place for all of the firearms on scene is holstered with their triggers covered, still insists on doing so is going to verbally describe for me - in advance, in detail, and in order - the necessary steps to safely clear it or I will be "requesting" someone who can.

    My 2Ę

  8. #178
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    Dec 2017
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    Lake Effect, Pennsylvania
    (Crawford County)
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    Default Re: PA state trooper disassenbled my gun during traffic stop

    If there is a bone to be picked it won’t have anything to do with the temporary confiscation of the firearm. The OP consented to that even though he implies that the tone of the request suggested it wasn’t an option. Even so, the police do have a concern once they become aware of a loaded firearm that can be produced in seconds to be used against them. The permit simply provides a defense against the violation of carrying concealed. However, an off duty police officer being stopped would probably not be disarmed. Depending on the nature of the neighborhood....there’s is a small chance he might be disarmed. Bakers get free bread, right?

    But there are Troopers who are certified Glock armorers. Few and far between but they exist. It is possible that the OP ran into one of these guys I suppose. I don’t believe you will find any indication that PSP trains it’s officer to disassemble firearms on traffic stops. In my opinion, that was something this guy decided to do on his own.

    There was an easy way for them to avoid all this. With two officers at the scene, one could have returned to the patrol car and issued the written warning....the other remained with the OP. The firearm could have simply been handed back unloaded. The reality is that most Glock owners can reassemble their handgun in 15 seconds. It’s four pieces. The OP probably had an extra magazine. If he did and had evil intentions, he could be engaging the officers within 20 seconds of being given back his pieces, and they would either be seated in the patrol car or have their back turned.

    I see the concern from the point of view of a single officer. From two, not so much. That’s why I thought it was an unnecessary step to take that has more downside to it than benefit.

  9. #179
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    Feb 2018
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    Downingtown, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: PA state trooper disassenbled my gun during traffic stop

    Iím sorry but I see all this a little different. Stop and stand in the officers shoes. Especially in this world now.

    The officer that handed the firearm back said I donít know you and I donít hand assembled guns back to people I donít know. Rightfully in my mind. They donít know you. They donít know whatís going to happen or what you might do. Maybe that warning for a busted tail light triggered you into wanting to shoot them. People are weird. Yes he could have handed you the Glock back slide locked and no mag in it. Put the mag on the passenger floor or something. But still.. itís not like they touched your pecker, they were very easy going it seems. They have familyís too. Personally wouldnít have had an issue with it.

  10. #180
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    Default Re: PA state trooper disassenbled my gun during traffic stop

    Quote Originally Posted by wd1446 View Post
    I’m sorry but I see all this a little different. Stop and stand in the officers shoes. Especially in this world now.

    The officer that handed the firearm back said I don’t know you and I don’t hand assembled guns back to people I don’t know. Rightfully in my mind. They don’t know you. They don’t know what’s going to happen or what you might do. Maybe that warning for a busted tail light triggered you into wanting to shoot them. People are weird. Yes he could have handed you the Glock back slide locked and no mag in it. Put the mag on the passenger floor or something. But still.. it’s not like they touched your pecker, they were very easy going it seems. They have family’s too. Personally wouldn’t have had an issue with it.
    The question isn’t what you or I or anybody else is willing to tolerate. It’s what is permitted by the courts, isn’t it?

    Would you be okay with them taking you out of the car by ordering you to place your hands out of the window and open the door from outside, Place your hands in the air, spin around, lift up your coat, lay face down on the ground, cross your legs, interlace your hands and then approach you with guns drawn until they disarm you. And then after issuing you a warning for a squirrel tail hanging from your mirror, tell you that to get your gun back you have to show up at the station. After all.....it’s dangerous out there and for their safety.

    What they are saying is, we don’t trust you with a gun anywhere in our vicinity even though while they conducted a traffic stop untold numbers of armed people were driving by and probably willing to step in to help if they saw police under attack.

    The fact is the public is armed and the police have to figure out a reasonable way of dealing with it short of disarming very person they come in contact with or shooting people who make “furtive” movements and turn out to be unarmed.

    It’s an issue that won’t fix itself and will get more intense with the conceal carry reciprocity movement.

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