Loading 223 Hornaday V-Max 60gr bullets with CFE223

[Remington788]

I want to hunt coyotes with my AR so I decided to work up a load using Hornaday's V-Max 60gr bullets. They have a little polymer tip to aid in expansion. I am shooting an entry level AR, a Colt 6900 carbine, standard A2 sights.
Hodgdon data for CFE223 powder calls for a starting load of 25.0 and a maximum of 26.7, not a big range.
I loaded 4 rounds each with 25.5, 25.8, 26.1, 26.4 and 26.7. I also brought along some of my plinking rounds, made with Hornady bulk 55gr bullets.

I took them out day and shot them at 50 yards from a bench. Groups (measuring the distance between the two furthest holes) were as follows:
Plinkers 1.14"
25.5 1.62"
25.8 0.81"
26.1 0.88"
26.4 1.31"
26.7 1.71"

What do you think of the 25.8 and 26.1? Should I pick one and be done (really not sure which is better), or should I make some 25.9 and 26.0 to see if they might be better)?





25.8.jpg26.1.JPG

[NathanB]

Where are your velocities and target velocity? That’s a big part of the load development

[frankski]

Here's a couple thoughts, which I hope will be useful.

You didn't mention whether your rifle is capable of better accuracy with the right ammo, so it's hard to judge whether the two best group are meaningful.

It would be difficult for me to refine loads using iron sights - I wouldn't be sure whether error was due to the gun, bullet, or me.

Of all the bullets I load for my two ARs and a bolt .223, the 60g VMAX is the most accurate. I use H4895, with a load I got from the Accurate Shooter website. http://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridge-guides/223rem/

I found a node slightly below the 25g sweet spot referred to in the loadmap. It's a remarkable load that shoots consistently under 3/4" at 100 from all three rifles, and often under 1/2" in the Tikka bolt rifle. Since it works for three rifles, it may be just a good load.

Although Hornady, Lyman, and Hodgdon show a lot of data for the 60g VMAX, I haven't bothered to try any other typical .223 powders.

[Remington788]

Where are your velocities and target velocity? That’s a big part of the load development

No chronograph today. While the shooting benches have a roof over them I didn’t want the chronograph sitting out in the rain. I have no particular target velocity in mind.

Here's a couple thoughts, which I hope will be useful.

You didn't mention whether your rifle is capable of better accuracy with the right ammo, so it's hard to judge whether the two best group are meaningful.

It would be difficult for me to refine loads using iron sights - I wouldn't be sure whether error was due to the gun, bullet, or me.

.

The round I typically shoot is the plinker I mentioned, though I also use that for my local high power matches. It shot a 1.14” group today. So the V-Max outperformed those.

I chose 50 yards because it is the furthest I can really make out the red bullseye on those targets. A rifle scope would be nice but I use iron sights on most of my rifles.

[Tim Ault]

No chronograph today. While the shooting benches have a roof over them I didn’t want the chronograph sitting out in the rain. I have no particular target velocity in mind.




The round I typically shoot is the plinker I mentioned, though I also use that for my local high power matches. It shot a 1.14” group today. So the V-Max outperformed those.

I chose 50 yards because it is the furthest I can really make out the red bullseye on those targets. A rifle scope would be nice but I use iron sights on most of my rifles.

If your used to shooting in a casual HP match a 3" solid black bull at 50 yds is the same as your SR targets i.e. 6" at 100, ect . Having a good target you can see well is half the battle shooting with iron sights and honestly testing a new load needs to be done at a longer range

[MD66948]

What state will you be planning on hunting in?

[Yellowfin]

What state will you be planning on hunting in?

Pretty much any he can do with that, now including PA.

As to what to do now, I'd say load up 5 rounds each of 25.8, 25.9, 26.0, and 26.1 then retest. Use the winner as your load for the rest of that box plus another hundred or two.

[aubie515]

I personally question a lot of what OP is doing.

1) I wouldn't choose the Vmax bullet as it causes a lot of damage...unless you are just going to shoot the coyote and not care about it's pelt.

2) Only using irons is marginal at best for a hunting application, unless once again you don't care about wounding the animal.

3) Not sure you where you are planning to hunt if it's in PA, but since you live in 5C, you can only use rimfire and/or shotgun, so no go on your centerfire AR15.

4) Knowing your velocities is a huge step that you overlooked as knowing your velocities will help you develop a DOPE. Then again, you aren't using optics, so you might not care.

This is why the FUDDS argue against hunting with semi in PA...and people like the OP fuel that fire by making posts that support the FUDDS argument.

IMO, if you are going to hunt, make sure that you can dispatch the animal that you are hunting in the quickest way possible. Choosing not to use optics is asking for a marginal shot at best.

[GeneCC]

I want to hunt coyotes with my AR so I decided to work up a load using Hornaday's V-Max 60gr bullets. They have a little polymer tip to aid in expansion. I am shooting an entry level AR, a Colt 6900 carbine, standard A2 sights.
Hodgdon data for CFE223 powder calls for a starting load of 25.0 and a maximum of 26.7, not a big range.
I loaded 4 rounds each with 25.5, 25.8, 26.1, 26.4 and 26.7. I also brought along some of my plinking rounds, made with Hornady bulk 55gr bullets.

I took them out day and shot them at 50 yards from a bench. Groups (measuring the distance between the two furthest holes) were as follows:
Plinkers 1.14"
25.5 1.62"
25.8 0.81"
26.1 0.88"
26.4 1.31"
26.7 1.71"

What do you think of the 25.8 and 26.1? Should I pick one and be done (really not sure which is better), or should I make some 25.9 and 26.0 to see if they might be better)?





25.8.jpg26.1.JPG

The CEP looks better on the 25.8 gr load.

I recommend doing more shooting runs to confirm between the two.


On inspection of online data I see CFE223 as being close to BL-C2 for this application but I could be wrong. How is the action working? ARs are touchy about port pressure.

[GeneCC]

I personally question a lot of what OP is doing.

1) I wouldn't choose the Vmax bullet as it causes a lot of damage...unless you are just going to shoot the coyote and not care about it's pelt.

2) Only using irons is marginal at best for a hunting application, unless once again you don't care about wounding the animal.

3) Not sure you where you are planning to hunt if it's in PA, but since you live in 5C, you can only use rimfire and/or shotgun, so no go on your centerfire AR15.

4) Knowing your velocities is a huge step that you overlooked as knowing your velocities will help you develop a DOPE. Then again, you aren't using optics, so you might not care.

This is why the FUDDS argue against hunting with semi in PA...and people like the OP fuel that fire by making posts that support the FUDDS argument.

IMO, if you are going to hunt, make sure that you can dispatch the animal that you are hunting in the quickest way possible. Choosing not to use optics is asking for a marginal shot at best.

Haters are going to hate. What is best for the application?

Iron sights are marginal compared to optics? People used iron sights for generations. Iron sights don't fog, they're tougher against being dropped.

I would prefer an optical sight and something a bit stouter than a 60 grain 223 for Coyote. I'm older so iron sights are tougher on me. A heavier round than 60 grains would make it easier to reach them at longer ranges in the 223. I'd consider a higher weight bullet if the barrel twist can hack it. Improve wounding at longer ranges. There are lots of nice hunting rounds in the upper weight ranges. Consider one.