Philly terror attack.....

**Wilderness 1864** · January 31st, 2018, 10:00 PM

Originally Posted by bogey1

My post was a poke at the da, he doesn't like cops. Im sure krasner will do everything in
his powers to make things difficult for the officer.

I would have taken that same poke, but you beat me to it.

The issue is real though, at least to me. Is the off duty officer just like any other citizen that has to follow the rules for use of deadly force? If this were anyone else, there would be no Union, no one to come to the shooter's defense. That person would be bankrupt in a NY minute if the established political powers in Philadelphia were to treat the shooter as an Islamophobe or a supremacist of some description. The shooter would be the perp, not the terrorist. If the off duty officer can call on his Union reps for legal assistance and rights under civil service, he would have a chance of clearing himself without going bankrupt in the process.

Someone earlier here had posted a report of a radio story that basically accused the shooter of walking up to a car and shooting without provocation. If the media can do that, some lefty ideologue like Krasner or Kenney could do something very similar and really make it hurt.

**Carson** · February 1st, 2018, 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by jakebrake

doesn't he also hate You Guys with a passion?

He has sued the PPD over 70 times for civil rights violations. But he had to be right at least in some of the cases

**Carson** · February 1st, 2018, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by Wilderness 1864

Does this officer get the protection of his Union and applicable civil service rules when he acts as he did here, but is off duty? I would like to think so. If not, he may well get railroaded by the likes of Krasner, Kenny and the City Council. Since none of them (1) admit we have a terror problem, (2) believe that individuals committing acts of terror according to the dictates of Mohammed are terrorists (they are either mentally ill or misunderstanders of the Koran), and (3) will be happy that one of their philosophical soulmates just got taken down in what will soon be called "a hail of bullets".

I think this officer stands a good chance of being persecuted by the established powers in Philadelphia.

I believe once he takes police action, he is considered on duty. He would be covered by the city, actually the FOP provides legal representation (unless the city were named in a civil suit) unless his actions were so outrageous that they couldn't be justified.

Originally Posted by Walleye Hunter

I'm thinking that that would depend on whether they take disciplinary action against him or not.

Any disciplinary action would most likely be after any criminal action. Otherwise he could possibly have a claim of double jeopardy. He could be totally cleared criminally, but still face discipline up to and including dismissal for violation of department policy.

**Carson** · February 1st, 2018, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by Wilderness 1864

I would have taken that same poke, but you beat me to it.

The issue is real though, at least to me. Is the off duty officer just like any other citizen that has to follow the rules for use of deadly force? If this were anyone else, there would be no Union, no one to come to the shooter's defense. That person would be bankrupt in a NY minute if the established political powers in Philadelphia were to treat the shooter as an Islamophobe or a supremacist of some description. The shooter would be the perp, not the terrorist. If the off duty officer can call on his Union reps for legal assistance and rights under civil service, he would have a chance of clearing himself without going bankrupt in the process.

Someone earlier here had posted a report of a radio story that basically accused the shooter of walking up to a car and shooting without provocation. If the media can do that, some lefty ideologue like Krasner or Kenney could do something very similar and really make it hurt.

That is a good reason why one should seriously think about what they are doing. Self defense for yourself or a loved one absolutely, getting physically involved otherwise can get you killed or bankrupt. You won't have the union or legal representation or backup officers rushing to your side.

**Wilderness 1864** · February 1st, 2018, 01:20 PM

Originally Posted by Carson

That is a good reason why one should seriously think about what they are doing. Self defense for yourself or a loved one absolutely, getting physically involved otherwise can get you killed or bankrupt. You won't have the union or legal representation or backup officers rushing to your side.

Thanks for the info. With that sort of backup, it would be harder for the established powers to just railroad him. He is fortunate in that respect. I have to imagine that he will also have to work out issues with the actions he has taken, even if they were all 100% legit. Taking a life isn't something I believe most folks take lightly or just brush aside, even if it is in one's line of work. This one was about as up close and personal as it gets.

Hear you on getting involved for protection of others. It can get complicated. Interesting that it appears from the report that a private citizen did something to prevent the terrorist from escaping. That took some guts.

**DonBiase** · February 1st, 2018, 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by Carson

I believe once he takes police action, he is considered on duty. He would be covered by the city, actually the FOP provides legal representation (unless the city were named in a civil suit) unless his actions were so outrageous that they couldn't be justified.

Any disciplinary action would most likely be after any criminal action. Otherwise he could possibly have a claim of double jeopardy. He could be totally cleared criminally, but still face discipline up to and including dismissal for violation of department policy.

You Sir, are correct.

**Berncly** · February 2nd, 2018, 07:44 AM

Originally Posted by Carson

That is a good reason why one should seriously think about what they are doing. Self defense for yourself or a loved one absolutely, getting physically involved otherwise can get you killed or bankrupt. You won't have the union or legal representation or backup officers rushing to your side.

QFT.

**sbmania** · February 2nd, 2018, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by Carson

That is a good reason why one should seriously think about what they are doing. Self defense for yourself or a loved one absolutely, getting physically involved otherwise can get you killed or bankrupt. You won't have the union or legal representation or backup officers rushing to your side.

I agree with what you are saying 100%. But I'll tell you, if my wife or kids were the next ones in line to be mowed down by this guy, and one of you guys was nearby with a pistol and I wasn't, I'd sure hope you would put a bullet in the driver's head to stop the attack from continuing!

Years ago, this wouldn't have been given a second thought. It's what any logically thinking person would have done. Stop the evil from continuing and preserve as many lives as possible. Today, it would be a toss up as to who is in more trouble - the terrorist or the armed citizen!

**xXxplosive** · February 2nd, 2018, 11:59 AM

Not sure.....but I believe there is a statute protecting a citizen from liability claims when interviening during a life & death situation.....anyone know ?

**bogey1** · February 2nd, 2018, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by xXxplosive

Not sure.....but I believe there is a statute protecting a citizen from liability claims when interviening during a life & death situation.....anyone know ?

If there is krazner wont care. (unless you were shooting up at the time whilst spitting on a cop)