Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Default What Exactly Constitutes an "Upgrade"?

    All to often when looking through the classified the firearms are listed as "custom" or "customized". In the true meaning this says the gun was built, modified, or designed for a specific person. To me it's a red flag and a turn off. Unless the work carries the name of a well known smith I probably want nothing to do with the bubbafacations someone else has created.

    On a related topic, what do you consider an upgrade? To me if the so called upgrade doesn't make it more accurate or more reliable it's nothing more than an add on. This is especially true for the tacticool ranger who adds a ton of Tapco and UTG crap. Nothing says Dollar Store Operator like bottom of the line cheap plastic Tapco stocks and grips, UTG slings and rails, and a $30 Chinese optic.

    I'm done, that's all....

  2. #2
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    Default Re: What Exactly Constitutes an "Upgrade"?

    As a purist who doesn't do a whole lot of modifications on my own guns, I certainly don't want someone else's idea of an "upgraded" gun either. I wouldn't knowingly buy anything modded by a stranger and certainly wouldn't pay more for it.

    Classic example is a Yugo SKS worth $350 but someone wants $500 because he put a tactical stock and bipod on it. Pass.

    So yea, I'm with you.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: What Exactly Constitutes an "Upgrade"?

    Quote Originally Posted by MT1 View Post
    All to often when looking through the classified the firearms are listed as "custom" or "customized". In the true meaning this says the gun was built, modified, or designed for a specific person.
    I'd disagree. While it CAN mean that, it could also mean it was build, modified or designed for a specific task or purpose. Plenty of custom stuff is done "on speculation" rather than for any specific person.

    On a related topic, what do you consider an upgrade? To me if the so called upgrade doesn't make it more accurate or more reliable it's nothing more than an add on.
    I'd disagree with that too. To me, an upgrade is a modification that enhances value with respect to function or ability to fulfill purpose. For example, gold-plating a gun's slide isn't an upgrade (although it certainly is a customization). Putting night sights on the same gun WOULD be an upgrade (even though it doesn't improve the gun's reliability or accuracy). Putting an Aimpoint on would also be an upgrade, as far as I am concerned.

    All of that said....I'd be weary of modifications done to anything (guns, cars, whatever) and I'd definitely not assign value to many modifications that someone thinks enhances value (putting chrome all over the fucking place on a vehicle, modified exhausts, etc.). Other mods, such as leather seating - sure - I'd put some value on that.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: What Exactly Constitutes an "Upgrade"?

    Some upgrades add real value, like an M&P Apex or a Sig SRT trigger. You just hope they didn't botch the installation.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: What Exactly Constitutes an "Upgrade"?

    *changes out a part with some cheap POS that doesn't even require tools, let alone a skillset, to change*

    My shit's custom now.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: What Exactly Constitutes an "Upgrade"?

    Quote Originally Posted by scruff View Post
    Some upgrades add real value, like an M&P Apex or a Sig SRT trigger. You just hope they didn't botch the installation.
    I sent my M&P to Apex for them to do the trigger job - because I would have botched it for sure (:

  7. #7
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    Default Re: What Exactly Constitutes an "Upgrade"?

    Quote Originally Posted by free View Post
    I'd disagree. While it CAN mean that, it could also mean it was build, modified or designed for a specific task or purpose. Plenty of custom stuff is done "on speculation" rather than for any specific person.

    I'd disagree with that too. To me, an upgrade is a modification that enhances value with respect to function or ability to fulfill purpose. For example, gold-plating a gun's slide isn't an upgrade (although it certainly is a customization). Putting night sights on the same gun WOULD be an upgrade (even though it doesn't improve the gun's reliability or accuracy). Putting an Aimpoint on would also be an upgrade, as far as I am concerned.

    All of that said....I'd be weary of modifications done to anything (guns, cars, whatever) and I'd definitely not assign value to many modifications that someone thinks enhances value (putting chrome all over the fucking place on a vehicle, modified exhausts, etc.). Other mods, such as leather seating - sure - I'd put some value on that.
    I think we're in agreement on this part. The wording may differ but our thoughts are the same.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: What Exactly Constitutes an "Upgrade"?

    Quote Originally Posted by scruff View Post
    Some upgrades add real value, like an M&P Apex or a Sig SRT trigger. You just hope they didn't botch the installation.
    Agreed... that's the part of a well known smith (or shop, or business). There is a difference between a professionally installed part and some drop in junk.

    As for value it's much like selling your used car thinking I'm going to pay a premium just because you replaced the original stereo. Whether one replaced it with a Walmart special for $50 or a high end Alpine for $600, I'm far more concerned with the condition of the engine, transmission, and body. The car stereo isn't going to convince me the car overall is worth a premium.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: What Exactly Constitutes an "Upgrade"?

    Quote Originally Posted by MT1 View Post
    I think we're in agreement on this part. The wording may differ but our thoughts are the same.
    Grips come to mind.

    My dad has a nasty habit of putting ivory grips on wheel guns. I'd say that is a customization, specific to the person. It does nothing to enhance the pistol's function - so it's not a customization by that standard. It's also not an upgrade - it does nothing to improve function or ability to fulfill design purpose. On the other hand, it may very well enhance the value of the gun. I mean, what the fuck else are you going to do with a wheel gun besides look at it? As a TOOL, there are simply better and/or more practical options available (yeah, yeah, I know).

    But there are other guns or other grips for which a non-standard grip MAY be an upgrade because they provide additional or enhanced function (rubber grips with lots of stippling, for example). But they still don't improve accuracy or reliability.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: What Exactly Constitutes an "Upgrade"?

    .

    I dont ever pay extra for "upgrades"
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 ........... United States v. Cruikshank

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