Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Default Returning a rifle to an out of state seller. FFL required?

    Asking about transfer laws online isn't always good. If better, I can contact the ATF. I'm not sure if I should contact via email, or try to call them. If I try to call them, is their number posted online?

    I recently bought an Enfield from an online auction (not Gunbroker, an online auction venue similar to RIA, Alderfers, etc.). The rifle was altered to look like a more rare/desirable rifle. The "alterer" also altered the serial number; hence I am returning the rifle. I have an FFL03.

    The auction house (located in Tennessee) delivered the rifle to an FFL for shipment/transfer to me (I did not discover the serial was altered until I had the rifle, and spoke with some people who are very knowledgeable with Enfields). So, I am going to return the rifle. The auction house is going to refund my money. The auctioneer wants me to send the rifle to the person who consigned the rifle to the auction. This person lives in Alabama. So, I'm thinking, even though I'm returning the rifle from a purchase, that I need to return it to an FFL in Alabama who can then transfer the rifle to the "original" owner. Does this sound correct? I read on the ATF site that firearms sent out for repair can be returned to the owner without a transfer. But, I couldn't find anything concerning returning purchased firearms.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Returning a rifle to an out of state seller. FFL required?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cville View Post
    Asking about transfer laws online isn't always good. If better, I can contact the ATF. I'm not sure if I should contact via email, or try to call them. If I try to call them, is their number posted online?

    I recently bought an Enfield from an online auction (not Gunbroker, an online auction venue similar to RIA, Alderfers, etc.). The rifle was altered to look like a more rare/desirable rifle. The "alterer" also altered the serial number; hence I am returning the rifle. I have an FFL03.

    The auction house (located in Tennessee) delivered the rifle to an FFL for shipment/transfer to me (I did not discover the serial was altered until I had the rifle, and spoke with some people who are very knowledgeable with Enfields). So, I am going to return the rifle. The auction house is going to refund my money. The auctioneer wants me to send the rifle to the person who consigned the rifle to the auction. This person lives in Alabama. So, I'm thinking, even though I'm returning the rifle from a purchase, that I need to return it to an FFL in Alabama who can then transfer the rifle to the "original" owner. Does this sound correct? I read on the ATF site that firearms sent out for repair can be returned to the owner without a transfer. But, I couldn't find anything concerning returning purchased firearms.
    You are now technically the new owner of that rifle so you have to either send it to an 01FFL or directly back to the previous owner if he has a valid 03FFL. Any other way and you are violating federal law.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Returning a rifle to an out of state seller. FFL required?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hodgie View Post
    You are now technically the new owner of that rifle so you have to either send it to an 01FFL or directly back to the previous owner if he has a valid 03FFL. Any other way and you are violating federal law.
    Thanks. That's what I thought.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Returning a rifle to an out of state seller. FFL required?

    Just off of the top of my head without doing the research myself but isn't altering the serial number a crime?

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Returning a rifle to an out of state seller. FFL required?

    Quote Originally Posted by ExFlyinguy View Post
    Just off of the top of my head without doing the research myself but isn't altering the serial number a crime?
    Sure is and I am surprised an auction house failed to notice this, but with old guns they probably just didn't know what to look for.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Returning a rifle to an out of state seller. FFL required?

    Quote Originally Posted by ExFlyinguy View Post
    Just off of the top of my head without doing the research myself but isn't altering the serial number a crime?
    Yes it is; hence the reason I don't want the rifle in my possession. The auction would have had to have know a lot of specific information in order to know that the serial number had been altered. Only people who collect the rifles and study their history knew about all of the irregularities.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Returning a rifle to an out of state seller. FFL required?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cville View Post
    Yes it is; hence the reason I don't want the rifle in my possession. The auction would have had to have know a lot of specific information in order to know that the serial number had been altered. Only people who collect the rifles and study their history knew about all of the irregularities.
    Out of curiosity what type of Enfield was it supposed to be? I have seen many faked Jungle carbines in my time and can spot them from legit ones pretty easily.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Returning a rifle to an out of state seller. FFL required?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cville View Post
    Yes it is; hence the reason I don't want the rifle in my possession. The auction would have had to have know a lot of specific information in order to know that the serial number had been altered. Only people who collect the rifles and study their history knew about all of the irregularities.
    I hope they bend over backwards to make things right for you!

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Returning a rifle to an out of state seller. FFL required?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hodgie View Post
    Out of curiosity what type of Enfield was it supposed to be? I have seen many faked Jungle carbines in my time and can spot them from legit ones pretty easily.
    Rifle was supposed to be a No1MKVI. Rifle was actually a No4 MK1 Long Branch that was altered to look like an MKVI. If you're a member on Gunboards, the thread is in the Enfield section. The "alterer" altered the serial number to resemble the type of serial number used on MKVI's. However, he made a few mistakes. A No4 Long Branch would not have a serial number that the rifle currently has.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Returning a rifle to an out of state seller. FFL required?

    I am a Gunboards member so I will drop in and check out the thread. It sucks that this kind of crap is apart of the collectible firearms world but at least there are sights out there that can verify everything. Hope you get everything you invested back.

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