Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Greensburg, Pennsylvania
    (Westmoreland County)
    Posts
    192
    Rep Power
    2469516

    Default Re: Returning a rifle to an out of state seller. FFL required?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hodgie View Post
    I am a Gunboards member so I will drop in and check out the thread. It sucks that this kind of crap is apart of the collectible firearms world but at least there are sights out there that can verify everything. Hope you get everything you invested back.
    It happens a lot. I would have suspected a No5 or a sniper on an Enfield. Probably a restored Long Lee (or something like that). I wouldn't have suspected it on this. Although, I don't delve into the Enfield section very often. Gunbroker is full of fake PU Snipers and "matching" K98ks. My name is "willyj73" over there.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Bucks, Pennsylvania
    Posts
    12,084
    Rep Power
    21474860

    Default Re: Returning a rifle to an out of state seller. FFL required?

    Quote Originally Posted by ExFlyinguy View Post
    Just off of the top of my head without doing the research myself but isn't altering the serial number a crime?
    Quote Originally Posted by Cville View Post
    Yes it is; hence the reason I don't want the rifle in my possession. The auction would have had to have know a lot of specific information in order to know that the serial number had been altered. Only people who collect the rifles and study their history knew about all of the irregularities.
    It's a crime to possess any gun with an altered serial number, and that gun is contraband. Safest thing for you to do is surrender it to ATF, have them document the issues, tell them who the auction house is, and inform them of where the gun is and that you expect to be made whole before you post the outcome (good or bad) over half the English-speaking Internet.

    If you sued them (the auction house and the seller) I expect that you'd win, with paperwork from ATF. Doesn't need to go that far, if the auction house is reputable.

    The least-safe thing is for you to be the shipper who's exercising continued control over a contraband gun. Call ATF, tell them the story, ask them how you can dump it in their laps without you getting shot.

    Think it through; if you bought baby powder off eBay and they shipped you cocaine, would you ship it back?
    Attorney Phil Kline, AKA gunlawyer001@gmail.com
    Thanks to all who attended my Firearms Law Workshops this year!

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    New Park, Pennsylvania
    (York County)
    Posts
    824
    Rep Power
    7372469

    Default Re: Returning a rifle to an out of state seller. FFL required?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cville View Post
    Rifle was supposed to be a No1MKVI. Rifle was actually a No4 MK1 Long Branch that was altered to look like an MKVI. If you're a member on Gunboards, the thread is in the Enfield section. The "alterer" altered the serial number to resemble the type of serial number used on MKVI's. However, he made a few mistakes. A No4 Long Branch would not have a serial number that the rifle currently has.
    I read the thread with interest. You posted some nice pictures to show the many alterations done to make a common rifle into a very rare one.

    This kind of fakery is a step above the normal refinish, or detailing done to "improve" a collectable into something to bring more money. It was (is) an act of intentional fraud. Whether the seller actually did it or just got stuck him or herself with the result was not determined.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Chambersburg, Pennsylvania
    (Franklin County)
    Age
    47
    Posts
    10,666
    Rep Power
    13781848

    Default Re: Returning a rifle to an out of state seller. FFL required?

    Quote Originally Posted by GunLawyer001 View Post
    It's a crime to possess any gun with an altered serial number, and that gun is contraband. Safest thing for you to do is surrender it to ATF, have them document the issues, tell them who the auction house is, and inform them of where the gun is and that you expect to be made whole before you post the outcome (good or bad) over half the English-speaking Internet.

    If you sued them (the auction house and the seller) I expect that you'd win, with paperwork from ATF. Doesn't need to go that far, if the auction house is reputable.

    The least-safe thing is for you to be the shipper who's exercising continued control over a contraband gun. Call ATF, tell them the story, ask them how you can dump it in their laps without you getting shot.

    Think it through; if you bought baby powder off eBay and they shipped you cocaine, would you ship it back?
    Sounds like it might be worth hiring an attorney to make the inquiry - just to add another layer of privacy/protection of identity.

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