Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #51
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    Default Re: Here is what is in store for ALL US GUN owners......

    Quote Originally Posted by buckengr View Post
    And doing nothing accomplishes... what exactly? Speaking up stopped the attempted ban on M855 green tip. It also delayed / reduced the impact of the proposed changes to NFA trust handling w.r.t. ATF 41F / ATF 41P.

    This isn't the end of the story, but the beginning. Engage now with your voice, while your voice is all that is demanded of you. If we don't, we will surely lose our liberty.

    1. Stay informed and engaged.
    2. Write thoughtful, well-argued, personalized comments during the comment period.
    3. Contact Senators, Representatives, and the White House and insist that this assault on due process and our fundamental liberties be stopped.
    4. REGISTER to VOTE and VOTE OUT those who violate their oath to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States (anyone who supports anti-gun bills).
    5. Join and Donate to GOA and other NO COMPROMISE gun rights groups.
    6. Rally friends and family to do likewise.
    I am fully on board with your recommendations. Consider me a fellow patriot.

    There are a few glaring differences btween the current situation and the abortion of the 5.56 M855 green tip bullet ban. The current threat has been initiated by Congress after the NRA implored them to re-examine the ruling on slidefires. During the ammunition ban proposal period, 52 Senators took an official stance against the ban and the NRA among other gun associations used their influence to pressure ATF to stop the action. This time around Congress is instigating the ban and the NRA is sitting this one out. The last time: we had command of the skies with air superiority, this time it’s a bayonet charge up hill on a machine gun nest.

    The other difference is that green tip ammo was never a threat to law enforcement because no AR platform handgun had ever been used to shoot green tip bullets to penetrate police armor. There were always any number of rifle cartridges capable of doing that but the legislation necessarily had to deal with handguns. This current situation arose specifically out of the use of slidefire stocks in the historic massacre of people at a concert in Las Vegas.

    I share all aspects of concern about how this opens the door to pervasive abuse of power by a progressive enforcement agency potentially circumventing the powers of Congress. I believe the most good can be accomplished by keeping like minded people in the membership of the NRA to voice concerns within the organization and vote out leadership that undermines the second amendment.

    I believe voicing concern to your representatives of Congress is of prime importance. But commenting to an agency about an issue they have no authority to legislate is legitimizing their doubtful role in this altogether. Especially since it appears the intelligence gathered to date says, the fix is in.
    Last edited by Williamsmith; January 21st, 2018 at 06:50 AM.

  2. #52
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    Default Re: Here is what is in store for ALL US GUN owners......

    Seems to me this Vasquez guy was sent out to make an issue of Bump Stocks so as to derail any chances of passing National Reciprocity.

    The ATF approved the devices because they do not convert a semiautomatic rifle into an automatic. Rather, they are an accessory that allows semiautomatic rifle owners to mimic automatic fire for short bursts.

    According to the Washington Post, Rick Vasquez, the ATF official who signed off on non-regulation for bump stocks, described them as “a goofy, little doodad.” This squares with the Breitbart News report that bump stocks “are for novelty, not accuracy.” They are devices that allow bursts of rapid fire but are unpredictable because the gun’s buffer tube can bounce around or bobble inside the device, making jams and inconsistent fire patterns likely.
    Vasquez, a former Marine, put is this way: “[Bump stocks are] for those guys who want to look like super ninja when they’re out on the range — they’re the people my peer group makes fun of. If you want a machine gun, join the Marines.”


    Lost in Vasquez’s humor is the fact that not everyone will join the Marines and very few people can afford their own machine gun, with prices starting at roughly $15,000. So a bump stock is a $200 substitute that allows cash-strapped citizens to mimic real machine guns on the cheap.
    But bump-stocks may be facing an uphill battle, as Sen Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) is calling for a ban on the devices and numerous GOP Senators–including John Cornyn and John Thune–admit unfamiliarity with the devices yet still express openness to a hearing on a ban. Moreover, Rep. Bill Flores (R-TX) made clear his belief that “typical gun owners” do not need bump stock devices
    http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...tocks-in-2010/

    Notably, in 2010–when bump stocks were approved–the ATF saw no need for additional regulations. Moreover, Rick Vasquez, former acting chief of the Firearms Technology Branch of the ATF, told USA Today that bump stocks were legalized because they are “an accessory, not a conversion device.” And the distinction between “accessory” and “conversion devices” could not be more important; it is the difference between allowing a semiautomatic to mimic automatic fire in short bursts verses actually converting a semiautomatic into an automatic rifle.
    So the NRA is asking Congress to end the gun control talk arising from the bump stock by sending it to the ATF, away from Congress’s purview. They say this with hopes that Congress will then become serious about passing concealed carry reciprocity.


    The NRA’s statement concludes:
    In an increasingly dangerous world, the NRA remains focused on our mission: strengthening Americans’ Second Amendment freedom to defend themselves, their families and their communities. To that end, on behalf of our five million members across the country, we urge Congress to pass National Right-to-Carry reciprocity, which will allow law-abiding Americans to defend themselves and their families from acts of violence.


    http://www.breitbart.com/2nd-amendme...l-reciprocity/

    Just sent NRA-ILA some cash to help get National Reciprocity moving again since it's been stalled over non issues.
    Last edited by JenniferG; January 21st, 2018 at 12:16 PM.
    Corruption is the default behavior of government officials. JPC

  3. #53
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    NEPA, Pennsylvania
    (Wyoming County)
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    Default Re: Here is what is in store for ALL US GUN owners......

    Quote Originally Posted by Williamsmith View Post
    I am fully on board with your recommendations. Consider me a fellow patriot.

    There are a few glaring differences btween the current situation and the abortion of the 5.56 M855 green tip bullet ban. The current threat has been initiated by Congress after the NRA implored them to re-examine the ruling on slidefires. During the ammunition ban proposal period, 52 Senators took an official stance against the ban and the NRA among other gun associations used their influence to pressure ATF to stop the action. This time around Congress is instigating the ban and the NRA is sitting this one out. The last time: we had command of the skies with air superiority, this time it’s a bayonet charge up hill on a machine gun nest.

    The other difference is that green tip ammo was never a threat to law enforcement because no AR platform handgun had ever been used to shoot green tip bullets to penetrate police armor. There were always any number of rifle cartridges capable of doing that but the legislation necessarily had to deal with handguns. This current situation arose specifically out of the use of slidefire stocks in the historic massacre of people at a concert in Las Vegas.

    I share all aspects of concern about how this opens the door to pervasive abuse of power by a progressive enforcement agency potentially circumventing the powers of Congress. I believe the most good can be accomplished by keeping like minded people in the membership of the NRA to voice concerns within the organization and vote out leadership that undermines the second amendment.

    I believe voicing concern to your representatives of Congress is of prime importance. But commenting to an agency about an issue they have no authority to legislate is legitimizing their doubtful role in this altogether. Especially since it appears the intelligence gathered to date says, the fix is in.
    With the exception of "the NRA sitting this one out", I pretty much agree with your assessment. The NRA is fully on board with the ATF redefining the definition of a machine gun - it's on their fricken website: https://home.nra.org/joint-statement

    The NRA believes that devices designed to allow semi-automatic rifles to function like fully-automatic rifles should be subject to additional regulations.
    Yes I agree that only commenting on the ATF website is going to fall very short of the man we need to reach- TRUMP
    "It seems that the Constitution is more or less guidelines than actual rules"
    My feedback: http://forum.pafoa.org/showthread.php?t=305685

  4. #54
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    Default Re: Here is what is in store for ALL US GUN owners......

    Quote Originally Posted by ExFlyinguy View Post
    With the exception of "the NRA sitting this one out", I pretty much agree with your assessment. The NRA is fully on board with the ATF redefining the definition of a machine gun - it's on their fricken website: https://home.nra.org/joint-statement




    Yes I agree that only commenting on the ATF website is going to fall very short of the man we need to reach- TRUMP
    I appreciate the chance to clarify this statement. In its context, I meant that the NRA is not pressuring anyone to defeat this attempted ban. Your point is that they are the primary mover for the ban...and I agree. It is regretful and that needs to have consequences among the leadership at the NRA. I detect an us versus them atmosphere between NRA and GOA and that is regrettable. That fire is also being fanned by influential YouTube content producers....which is also unfortunate.

  5. #55
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    Default Re: Here is what is in store for ALL US GUN owners......

    Quote Originally Posted by buckengr View Post
    And doing nothing accomplishes... what exactly? Speaking up stopped the attempted ban on M855 green tip. It also delayed / reduced the impact of the proposed changes to NFA trust handling w.r.t. ATF 41F / ATF 41P.

    This isn't the end of the story, but the beginning. Engage now with your voice, while your voice is all that is demanded of you. If we don't, we will surely lose our liberty.

    1. Stay informed and engaged.
    2. Write thoughtful, well-argued, personalized comments during the comment period.
    3. Contact Senators, Representatives, and the White House and insist that this assault on due process and our fundamental liberties be stopped.
    4. REGISTER to VOTE and VOTE OUT those who violate their oath to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States (anyone who supports anti-gun bills).
    5. Join and Donate to GOA and other NO COMPROMISE gun rights groups.
    6. Rally friends and family to do likewise.
    Agree with all that you wrote...I am 100% with ya!

    Yet, it appears that America is so full of wussie soft shoe feckless men[SIC] that we have not address the wicked and onerous NFA regulations and state laws that exist now.

    The men of our country have let all sorts of wicked paradigms take root in the minds of their family and their young: ideas that have fostered laziness (poor work ethics) and drug use. Keep in mind we have watched the illegal alien's pour into our country.

    We constantly hear the myth that America has people starving and need food hand outs.

    The out of wedlock birth rate is around 40% (77% for blacks and hispanics 52%). The every increasing 'hit it and quit it' mind set in dating is helping to fuel bastard birth rates. People commonly and openly brag about their transient sexual relationships behavior.

    We have accept the stupid feminist philosophy spread and adopted all sorts of effeminate, socialist and leftist ideology into our day to day social life that it is not likely we can turn the tide of anti-gun fuddism and anit-gun feminism while we have the other problems noted above.

  6. #56
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    Eastern PA, Pennsylvania
    (Delaware County)
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    Default Re: Here is what is in store for ALL US GUN owners......

    Quote Originally Posted by Williamsmith View Post
    I appreciate the chance to clarify this statement. In its context, I meant that the NRA is not pressuring anyone to defeat this attempted ban. Your point is that they are the primary mover for the ban...and I agree. It is regretful and that needs to have consequences among the leadership at the NRA. I detect an us versus them atmosphere between NRA and GOA and that is regrettable. That fire is also being fanned by influential YouTube content producers....which is also unfortunate.

    Surprise, surprise...people are picking sides. Isn't that one of the criteria for creating division amongst the gun community? Why is the rhetoric always getting ramped up? If some of you aren't suffering from PTSD, you will soon.

  7. #57
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    Default Re: Here is what is in store for ALL US GUN owners......

    Quote Originally Posted by RenoV8 View Post
    Surprise, surprise...people are picking sides. Isn't that one of the criteria for creating division amongst the gun community? Why is the rhetoric always getting ramped up? If some of you aren't suffering from PTSD, you will soon.
    It’s simple I am for absolutely no further compromise especially now with a so called pro gun president in the office.

    I am undivided and completely uneffected by what the give them this and just maybe they will leave us a scrap people say or do.

    Apparently we have lots who will bargain and offer trades with their freedoms which is rather concerning but far from surpriseing. To have ever thought we are all the same or one united group is laughable just read what’s posted here about our so called brothers and sisters in arms who live in anti gun states on a daily basis.

    It’s apparent to many across the entire community that we, today’s modern gun owner need a change in our national representation and there is no better time then the present to make that change. Will it ruffle some feathers? Sure but that’s The Who point.

  8. #58
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    Default Re: Here is what is in store for ALL US GUN owners......

    Quote Originally Posted by Hodgie View Post
    It’s simple I am for absolutely no further compromise especially now with a so called pro gun president in the office.

    I am undivided and completely uneffected by what the give them this and just maybe they will leave us a scrap people say or do.

    Apparently we have lots who will bargain and offer trades with their freedoms which is rather concerning but far from surpriseing. To have ever thought we are all the same or one united group is laughable just read what’s posted here about our so called brothers and sisters in arms who live in anti gun states on a daily basis.

    It’s apparent to many across the entire community that we, today’s modern gun owner need a change in our national representation and there is no better time then the present to make that change. Will it ruffle some feathers? Sure but that’s The Who point.
    I agree we need a change in representation. I gave up my NRA membership when the stupid dolt on the telephone, I was speaking with, hung up on me, because I happen to ask him several times what the NRA's position was on certain issues.

    Regarding the division amonsgt us...to each his own when it comes to what they think is important...but as a group we need to stand together. We can have our differences, for that is what will make us stronger as a group, but we need to be united in the overall, common good, of our 2nd Amendment rights.

  9. #59
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    Default Re: Here is what is in store for ALL US GUN owners......

    So what are the plans of bump stock and slidefire owners as states begin to take the initiative and ban them outright? Massachusetts is first. NJ is definitely in the works as are at least 15 other states. The BATF proposed rule making doesn’t seem to inhibit states from browbeating their resident gun owners.


  10. #60
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    Default Re: Here is what is in store for ALL US GUN owners......

    Looks like some cops in Massachusetts will be able to supplement their income selling bump stocks on ebay.
    "Destroy them". Yeah, right.

    Seems like a sneak preview of how it will go down when guns themselves are eventually banned.
    No confiscation - simply put the burden on the owner to turn them in - or else.

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