Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #11
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    Default Re: Legit self defense or not?

    I am not a lawyer and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night, but it would seem to me that Weiss did not retreat before firing the shot. If he would have gone back to his car and stayed there and Rahim moved towards him and continued his verbal attack, then Weiss may have had a defense if Rahim did go for his pistol.

    I don't see this turning out good for Weiss. This is just another example of just because you have a CCW, doesn't mean you have the right to shoot. Knowing the laws of your state (not just being familiar) is imperative if you are going to carry. This isn't a video game and there are real life and death decisions to be made in a moment's notice.

    First and foremost, Weiss escalated the situation when he retrieved his gun and returned to Rahim's location. He set himself up with that action. Since there was no physical threat at that time, he ended up being the aggressor. Strike 2. Strike 3 came when he shot Rahim without due cause or a witness to back up his claims.

    I don't know what to say other than people who carry should learn from this situation and realize that a CCW weapon should stay concealed until it is absolutely required to save your life. DAs today just love to bring people up on charges when things like this happens. But in this case, I think there was no other way. Guilty as charged. (Caveat: as long as these are the facts as presented in the write up.)

  2. #12
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    Default Re: Legit self defense or not?

    Well, Rahim (now deceased) did dare Weiss to shoot him. Sounds okay to me.

  3. #13
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    Default Re: Legit self defense or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by American1776 View Post
    If im in my car and somebody threatens my life, I drive away. I’d rather ‘accidentally’ get into a car accident where I hit someone by accident, then have to shoot somebody.
    It was a scene of a car accident, he couldn't just drive away.

    Also, Rochester Police Capt. John Sherwin is fucking moron. He said Tuesday that Weiss was not physically injured in the confrontation, nor were "punches thrown." I want to see that Police Capt get back on his feet AFTER I'll throw just one punch.
    Je suis déplorable

  4. #14
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    Default Re: Legit self defense or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Metz View Post
    It was a scene of a car accident, he couldn't just drive away.

    Also, Rochester Police Capt. John Sherwin is fucking moron. He said Tuesday that Weiss was not physically injured in the confrontation, nor were "punches thrown." I want to see that Police Capt get back on his feet AFTER I'll throw just one punch.
    I’d rather face the consequences of leaving the scene, than having to shoot someone in self defense. I’m sure if we asked Weiss right now which of the two charges he’d rather be facing, he’d trade places if he could.

  5. #15
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    Default Re: Legit self defense or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by WCMG View Post
    Minnesota is a "duty to retreat" state, "At some point during the confrontation, Weiss went back to his vehicle to retrieve a 9 mm pistol" and then returned to the confrontation.

    I don't see this turning out in favor of Weiss.
    Agreed. He felt threatened and went to his car to get his gun - he could have just have easily went to his car and locked himself inside, or even driven away.

    I think he hanged himself with that one.

  6. #16
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    Default Re: Legit self defense or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by knight0334 View Post
    According to Minnesota law - he's guilty.

    He had an opportunity to leave, did so, then came back - that isn't going to pan out well for him.

    Even in states where you have No Duty to Retreat - if you leave, then return, you're probably going to be fucked because the return would likely be viewed as an attempt to escalate the situation.
    Well said.
    My comment exactly.
    How can you have any cookies if you don't drink your milk?

  7. #17
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    Default Re: Legit self defense or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Carson View Post
    Some people are not afraid of guns or getting shot or dying. After Rahim spat on him, saying “that’s not even a real gun” and “I f****** dare you to do it.” What was Weiss going to do?

    Interestingly Weiss’s bumper sticker ‘Gun Control Means Hitting Your Target’ was mentioned. How do you think that is going to work out in a criminal or civil trial ?
    I've been telling people for years, not to put those kinds of stickers on your car or home. It looks terrible and incriminating if you ever have to shoot a bad guy. Your sob story of "gosh, officer, I feel hollow and ashamed that I had to take the life of this young man" is lessened by your sticker stating that "if you're found here at night you'll be found here in the morning".

    Quote Originally Posted by Metz View Post
    It was a scene of a car accident, he couldn't just drive away.

    Also, Rochester Police Capt. John Sherwin is fucking moron. He said Tuesday that Weiss was not physically injured in the confrontation, nor were "punches thrown." I want to see that Police Capt get back on his feet AFTER I'll throw just one punch.
    Whether he'd be justified in leaving the scene of an accident after being threatened, is a decent question ("justification" or "necessity" come into play there); but it's possible that he physically COULDN'T drive away. We don't know if his car was banged up, whether his tire had a piece of the fender locking it down, whether his engine was smashed and leaking fluids, whether his battery was toast and he'd be sitting in his car, cranking the engine while a small pack of thugs surrounded and beat him and killed him.

    We don't know if his car was parked in; the dead guy's car BACKED into him, so there was a car in front of him; and it's certainly possible that there were cars behind him that came to a sudden stop, and blocked him from backing up. In PA, your duty is to retreat IF YOU CAN retreat safely. (That was an element of the Zimmerman case that the idiot media missed; that George Z had no ability to retreat, once the punk was on top of him and smashing his head to the concrete. "Stand Your Ground" was never any part of the Zimmerman case.)

    I'd need to look into another aspect; whether he was obliged to retreat if they had his car blocked. I know that it can be deemed to be false imprisonment if someone grabs your car keys or wallet and refuses to let you leave with them. You're "detained" because your property is being wrongfully detained. Maybe he wasn't free to retreat because they had his car blocked. Depends on their statutes and case law.
    Attorney Phil Kline, AKA gunlawyer001@gmail.com
    Ce sac n'est pas un jouet.

  8. #18
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    Default Re: Legit self defense or not?

    The shooter is described as leaving and getting his gun and coming back as though he walked two blocks. It's more like he was confronted up near his headlights, and he turned and walked 6 feet and reached into his out of service vehicle for his gun since he sensed pending potential risk and he was alone in an area not his stomping grounds.

    Challenged by a "you won't do it", (typical of a 'victim's' participation in their own demise), and we don't know what else was said to the shooter that amounted to a serious threat, serious enough to explain why he took no chances and fired.

  9. #19
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    Default Re: Legit self defense or not?

    I agree with posts 2, 8, 12. I’ll throw in a human life was taken because of a 1000 dollar bumper. Life sure is cheap.

  10. #20
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    Default Re: Legit self defense or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Qtrborecrazy View Post
    I agree with posts 2, 8, 12. I’ll throw in a human life was taken because of a 1000 dollar bumper. Life sure is cheap.
    This isn't about a thousand dollar bumper, it's about hey, why the fuck did you hit my car from both of these guys.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggies Coach View Post
    Cause white people are awesome. Happy now......LOL.

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