Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #21
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    Default Re: 2 cited in Tamaqa lying on 4473

    Quote Originally Posted by abner13 View Post
    Lets go back to when laws were written and trials were held in LATIN. Now only some of the terms are in Latin. If lawyers are gonna charge $500/hr for a babbling a bunch of big words , those words should be in Latin!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Latin_legal_terms
    Just this week I used the phrase "inter arma enim silent leges". What more could you want?
    Attorney Phil Kline, AKA gunlawyer001@gmail.com
    Free seminar 7/18/19 in Quakertown: https://www.senatormensch.com/concealed-carry-seminar/

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
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    lewistown, Pennsylvania
    (Mifflin County)
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    Default Re: 2 cited in Tamaqa lying on 4473

    Quote Originally Posted by MARINE DIVISION TWO View Post
    You Breaka The Law ATF Breaka You Face !Dont do the crime if you cant do the time !Just dont F-- -- KIN LIE !
    Ok Baretta ........................

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
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    Douglassville, Pennsylvania
    (Berks County)
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    Default Re: 2 cited in Tamaqa lying on 4473

    Sorry but I'm all out of pity right now, please try later.

  4. #24
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    Apr 2009
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    Quakertown, Pennsylvania
    (Bucks County)
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    Default Re: 2 cited in Tamaqa lying on 4473

    Quote Originally Posted by GunLawyer001 View Post
    Just this week I used the phrase "inter arma enim silent leges". What more could you want?
    Of course they're silent, they shut down after Samuel Cummings died.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    DeepInTheWoods, Pennsylvania
    (Warren County)
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    Default Re: 2 cited in Tamaqa lying on 4473

    Quote Originally Posted by Williamsmith View Post
    Of the over 7000 investigations.....only 700 arrests.....and roughly half resulted in convictions. That means the pics system which relies on the nics system is only correct 10% of the time. 90% of the time, people are wrongly denied the purchase of a firearm. That’s horrendous.....and is what passes for reasonable gun control.
    nah it does not mean that.

    You are jumping to a conclusion based on a tiny bit of info.
    American by BIRTH, Infidel by CHOICE

  6. #26
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    May 2019
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    Aston, Pennsylvania
    (Delaware County)
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    Default Re: 2 cited in Tamaqa lying on 4473

    Quote Originally Posted by markshere2 View Post
    nah it does not mean that

    You are jumping to a conclusion based on a tiny bit of info.
    Quote Originally Posted by GunLawyer001 View Post
    Part of it is that some terms have generations of legal interpretation behind them, which would have to start over if we went from the King James version of statutes to some hipper, more current version.

    But mostly, simple laws are vague. The 10 Commandments are short and sweet, but shouldn't there be a whole bunch of exceptions to "honor thy father and mother"? What if they're nuts? What if father abused you? What if they insist that you vote Democratic?

    The law has to cover the universe of possibilities, and that takes a lot of words, and makes for long, intricate sentence structure.

    Still, Federal law could be easier; my suggestion has been that we change "convicted of a crime punishable by more than 1 year" to "served more than 6 months for any crime". It's an easy sell to the unsophisticated, since it looks like we're being tougher on would-be gun buyers; but the reality is that it's a lateral move, since bad people who are convicted of serious crimes tend to serve some time, whereas good people who stumbled and violated the law pay fines and do probation. And it's EASY for people to know and remember if they served half a year in prison, whereas demanding that they know the maximum statutory penalty for a specific legal statute is unreasonable; I know how fast I've driven my car this week, but I don't know the max rated speed for my engine.

    Your suggestion would mean that the law has to be changed. There is a big difference between “served more than 6 months in jail”, and “punishable by more than one year in jail”. You can be convicted of a crime punishable by more than one year in jail, but only get probation and a fine. The forms do not require that you have extensive knowledge of any laws. It is a series of questions that require either a yes or no answer. For a firearms purchase it pays to do your research. Do a background check on yourself. I am not squeaky clean but I got transcripts of my cases to see what the final disposition of my cases were. When you exactly what you were convicted of, it’s not difficult to find out what the maximum penalty for that conviction is.

  7. #27
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    Sep 2015
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    zelienople, Pennsylvania
    (Beaver County)
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    Default Re: 2 cited in Tamaqa lying on 4473

    I don't have any cases. Do I pass the test?

  8. #28
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    May 2019
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    Aston, Pennsylvania
    (Delaware County)
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    Default Re: 2 cited in Tamaqa lying on 4473

    Of course.

  9. #29
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    Aug 2009
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    bloomsburg, Pennsylvania
    (Columbia County)
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    Default Re: 2 cited in Tamaqa lying on 4473

    If one can get their drivers license history and criminal history online, I don't know why PA state police can't have a system in place where one can find out if they are under a firearms disability. They could even charge a fee and make some money on this.
    One could run a query on themself if they have a questionable background and find out officially if they are cleared to buy and possess a firearm. The state police will collect their fee and an unintentional crime could be prevented.

  10. #30
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    Dec 2006
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    Default Re: 2 cited in Tamaqa lying on 4473

    Quote Originally Posted by Not the momma View Post
    Your suggestion would mean that the law has to be changed.
    Yes, that's why I suggested that it be changed.


    Quote Originally Posted by Not the momma View Post
    There is a big difference between “served more than 6 months in jail”, and “punishable by more than one year in jail”. You can be convicted of a crime punishable by more than one year in jail, but only get probation and a fine.
    Yes, that's why the words are different.

    Quote Originally Posted by Not the momma View Post
    The forms do not require that you have extensive knowledge of any laws. It is a series of questions that require either a yes or no answer. For a firearms purchase it pays to do your research. Do a background check on yourself. I am not squeaky clean but I got transcripts of my cases to see what the final disposition of my cases were.
    Actually, the 4473 requires that you reach a correct legal conclusion under penalty of criminal prosecution. They don't ask what you did, they ask what the law said about what you did, which is different, and why I suggested that the law ask what you did, as in "was your body in a prison cell for more than 6 months in a row?" people remember that kind of thing, even people with multiple "cases".

    Quote Originally Posted by Not the momma View Post
    When you exactly what you were convicted of, it’s not difficult to find out what the maximum penalty for that conviction is.
    Actually, that's not the question, the question is 'what was the maximum permissible sentence AT THE TIME?' Show me where the average citizen can, without "difficulty", find the text of a statute as it stood in 1975, prior to any amendments in the intervening years. I have old books that I spent a lot of money on.

    While you're at it, tell me the max sentence for a DUI in 2005. Don't spend more than 5 minutes at it, and don't visit the county seat to do it. And if you get it wrong, let's assume that you'll be arrested and tried for some flavor of perjury.
    Attorney Phil Kline, AKA gunlawyer001@gmail.com
    Free seminar 7/18/19 in Quakertown: https://www.senatormensch.com/concealed-carry-seminar/

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