Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #11
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    Default Re: 2 cited in Tamaqa lying on 4473

    Quote Originally Posted by God's Country View Post
    Fake news.

    Saw on CNN that anyone can come to PA and purchase firearms because we have no firearm laws n shit.
    Agreed, what a load these stories are. ;-)
    Gunowner99 - NRA Benefactor Life Member

  2. #12
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    Default Re: 2 cited in Tamaqa lying on 4473

    Quote Originally Posted by SIGFAN86 View Post
    But shouldn't we demand that the law be written in such a way that a lay man/woman/addnewdescriptorhere (person) can understand it?
    Not knocking the great works you have done, but why cannot laws be written to be understood by all and not a select few? I can pick up about 50-60% of the verbiage of legal documents, but there's still verbal judo that eludes me
    Part of it is that some terms have generations of legal interpretation behind them, which would have to start over if we went from the King James version of statutes to some hipper, more current version.

    But mostly, simple laws are vague. The 10 Commandments are short and sweet, but shouldn't there be a whole bunch of exceptions to "honor thy father and mother"? What if they're nuts? What if father abused you? What if they insist that you vote Democratic?

    The law has to cover the universe of possibilities, and that takes a lot of words, and makes for long, intricate sentence structure.

    Still, Federal law could be easier; my suggestion has been that we change "convicted of a crime punishable by more than 1 year" to "served more than 6 months for any crime". It's an easy sell to the unsophisticated, since it looks like we're being tougher on would-be gun buyers; but the reality is that it's a lateral move, since bad people who are convicted of serious crimes tend to serve some time, whereas good people who stumbled and violated the law pay fines and do probation. And it's EASY for people to know and remember if they served half a year in prison, whereas demanding that they know the maximum statutory penalty for a specific legal statute is unreasonable; I know how fast I've driven my car this week, but I don't know the max rated speed for my engine.
    Attorney Phil Kline, AKA gunlawyer001@gmail.com
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  3. #13
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    Default Re: 2 cited in Tamaqa lying on 4473

    Quote Originally Posted by SIGFAN86 View Post
    But shouldn't we demand that the law be written in such a way that a lay man/woman/addnewdescriptorhere (person) can understand it?
    Not knocking the great works you have done, but why cannot laws be written to be understood by all and not a select few? I can pick up about 50-60% of the verbiage of legal documents, but there's still verbal judo that eludes me
    Yes. It's absurd to have a stanndard based on the ability of an attorney to understand the law. It is absurd, and clearly demonstrates how bad things have become.

    If I were to draft a declaration of independence, you can be sure that among the top of the long list of the long train of abuses would be the fact that the government allows such an extreme number of laws to exist that it is impossible for even the best among the citizenry to have familiarity with all of them, let alone the common man that all these laws apply to. (I would probably use smaller sentences too )

  4. #14
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    Default Re: 2 cited in Tamaqa lying on 4473

    Quote Originally Posted by Carnes View Post
    Yes. It's absurd to have a stanndard based on the ability of an attorney to understand the law. It is absurd, and clearly demonstrates how bad things have become.

    If I were to draft a declaration of independence, you can be sure that among the top of the long list of the long train of abuses would be the fact that the government allows such an extreme number of laws to exist that it is impossible for even the best among the citizenry to have familiarity with all of them, let alone the common man that all these laws apply to. (I would probably use smaller sentences too )
    At the risk of repeating myself

    The laws are written today and for some time before to make them so complicated the average person cannot possibly know what is legal or illegal. It's done on purpose so that government has complete control over the lives of citizens. That's why it's un Constitutional to write laws that the common person can't understand and this is just more proof that the Constitution no longer matters to those that have taken an oath to defend that Constitution. Remember as in the case of New Jersey and other socialist states that those with the guns make the rules.
    Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country.

  5. #15
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    Default Re: 2 cited in Tamaqa lying on 4473

    tamaqua... no surprise

  6. #16
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    Default Re: 2 cited in Tamaqa lying on 4473

    You Breaka The Law ATF Breaka You Face !Dont do the crime if you cant do the time !Just dont F-- -- KIN LIE !

  7. #17
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    Default Re: 2 cited in Tamaqa lying on 4473

    But shouldn't we demand that the law be written in such a way that a lay man/woman/addnewdescriptorhere (person) can understand it?
    Not knocking the great works you have done, but why cannot laws be written to be understood by all and not a select few? I can pick up about 50-60% of the verbiage of legal documents, but there's still verbal judo that eludes me
    Yes. It's absurd to have a stanndard based on the ability of an attorney to understand the law. It is absurd, and clearly demonstrates how bad things have become.

    If I were to draft a declaration of independence, you can be sure that among the top of the long list of the long train of abuses would be the fact that the government allows such an extreme number of laws to exist that it is impossible for even the best among the citizenry to have familiarity with all of them, let alone the common man that all these laws apply to. (I would probably use smaller sentences too )
    But then we wouldn't need $500/hr wordsmiths/lawyers to interpert and twist and turn the meaning of words like IS (see Bill Clinton!) and confuse jurists.
    "It depends on what the meaning of the words 'is' is." –Bill Clinton,
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4XT-l-_3y0



    The 10 Commandments are short and sweet, but shouldn't there be a whole bunch of exceptions to "honor thy father and mother"?
    But depending on what church you follow , the commandments have been shortened or edited from the originals found in the Hebrew bible. ''Thou shall not kill'' was originally ''Thou shall not commit murder''.
    Last edited by abner13; January 16th, 2018 at 03:56 AM.
    I don't speak English , I talk American!

  8. #18
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    Default Re: 2 cited in Tamaqa lying on 4473

    Quote Originally Posted by middlefinger View Post
    Two men were recently cited by Tamaqua police for lying on their applications to purchase a firearm.

    Barry Wiliam Fulton, 52, of 189 W. Mountain Top Road, Summit Hill, visited Eds Sports Shop, 308 W. Broad St., on Dec. 12, interested in purchasing a Martin/Glenfield Model 60, .22 caliber rifle. When he filled out the ATF and state police forms, he checked the no box when asked if he had ever been committed to a mental institution.


    Fulton was actually committed to a mental health facility in Lehigh County in 2015.

    He was charged with providing false information on a firearms ownership application and making a sworn false statement.

    Mark Marion Poehler, 56, no address given, attempted to buy a Glock 36, .45 caliber handgun from Eds Sports Shop on Dec. 15. Poehler checked no on the ATF and state police forms in answer to questions about drug use and crime convictions.

    Poehler is a known drug abuser, with extensive criminal records in Florida and Massachusetts. He also received a dishonorable discharge from the U.S. Navy in connection with desertion.

    He was charged with providing false information on a firearms ownership application and making a sworn false statement.
    I have great sympathy for those who get busted for an unwitting error and/or genuinely forgot about some long-ago error. I VERY much dislike the popo's habit of coming to harass folks who made an honest mistake and/or really didn't 'do it' and got caught up in a heavily flawed system.

    But I do have to say, neither of these guys generates much "awwww...." from me.

    First dude "forgot" he was committed 2 years ago?

    Second dude "forgot" about his extensive record and dishonorable discharge?

    C'mon...

    I'm sure we have a ton of cases to put up there as reasons busting on people for "lying" on the 4473 is BS.

    But I don't think these two are among those cases. Yeah, let the flaming begin.

    FWIW, whether they -should- be disqualified is a whole separate issue. But as the law stands at the moment... these don't seem to be 'innocent bystanders' to me.
    "Those who would give up essential Liberty to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety" - Ben Franklin.

  9. #19
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    Default Re: 2 cited in Tamaqa lying on 4473

    I agree, both are very obvious violations and not a scratch my head situation.
    Gunowner99 - NRA Benefactor Life Member

  10. #20
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    Default Re: 2 cited in Tamaqa lying on 4473

    Lets go back to when laws were written and trials were held in LATIN. Now only some of the terms are in Latin. If lawyers are gonna charge $500/hr for a babbling a bunch of big words , those words should be in Latin!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Latin_legal_terms
    Last edited by abner13; January 16th, 2018 at 06:25 PM.
    I don't speak English , I talk American!

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