Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
Results 1 to 7 of 7
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Allentown, Pennsylvania
    (Lehigh County)
    Posts
    2
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Felon vs Non-Felon / 922 / 6105 etc.

    Many Court rulings mention the prohibition of "Felons" to possess, etc, in both US and Commonwealth Courts.

    I'm a little confused however, over the language used in the Courts, and the Statutes, both Federal and PA.

    The Statutes seem to agree that anyone convicted of a crime punishable by imprisonment of one year or more may not possess.

    However, U.S. v Bowdach, 414 F. Supp. 1346 (D.S. Fla 1976), aff`d, 561 F.2d 1160 (5th Cir. 1977). The court held that "possession of the shotgun by a non-felon has no legal consequences. U.S. Const. Amend. II."

    So here, the term "Felon" seems to have been taken literally by the Appeals Court.

    ------------

    What I can't seem to find is whether the "one year or more" language appeared after this Court decision.

    ------------

    Years ago, I pleaded guilty to one count of "corruption of a minor" an M1 offense in PA, and a disabling offense under 6105.

    Does anyone have any info on this?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Brookville, Pennsylvania
    (Jefferson County)
    Age
    51
    Posts
    20,076
    Rep Power
    21474874

    Default Re: Felon vs Non-Felon / 922 / 6105 etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cisco View Post
    Many Court rulings mention the prohibition of "Felons" to possess, etc, in both US and Commonwealth Courts.

    I'm a little confused however, over the language used in the Courts, and the Statutes, both Federal and PA.

    The Statutes seem to agree that anyone convicted of a crime punishable by imprisonment of one year or more may not possess.

    However, U.S. v Bowdach, 414 F. Supp. 1346 (D.S. Fla 1976), aff`d, 561 F.2d 1160 (5th Cir. 1977). The court held that "possession of the shotgun by a non-felon has no legal consequences. U.S. Const. Amend. II."

    So here, the term "Felon" seems to have been taken literally by the Appeals Court.

    ------------

    What I can't seem to find is whether the "one year or more" language appeared after this Court decision.

    ------------

    Years ago, I pleaded guilty to one count of "corruption of a minor" an M1 offense in PA, and a disabling offense under 6105.

    Does anyone have any info on this?
    It is 2 years, not 1 year despite what the PSP tries to enforce. I think PA M1's are punishable upto 5 years in prison, unless they have a specific penalty lesser or more for the given offense. More than likely you are a prohibited person. Since PA's M1 is punishable upto 5 years, and is an offense of 1 year or more and exceeds the 2 year exemption of state misdemeanors by federal law - it is a prohibiting factor. If that "corruption of a minor" offense has since been changed to a lessor, non-prohibiting penalty, you can file for relief of disabilities. If it hasn't, your only option is Presidential or Governor pardon, then you'd need an expungement to follow up with.


    Any felony is prohibiting from the git-go regardless of length of possible sentence.

    Federal law only prohibits certain Federal and State misdemeanors of 1 year or more, not counting state misdemeanors of 2 years or less. PA law enumerates an additional list of crimes by name, and drug/cosmetic offenses of more than 2 years that will prohibit you from the git-go just as a felony would. A prohibited person is a prohibited person - it counts for shotguns, rifles, handguns and blackpowder.

    http://www.pafoa.org/forum/question-...-out-pics.html

    State law on prohibited persons.

    http://members.aol.com/StatutesP7/18PA6105.html



    Federal law

    http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/ht...1----000-.html

    TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 44 > § 921(a)
    (20) The term “crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year” does not include
    (A) any Federal or State offenses pertaining to antitrust violations, unfair trade practices, restraints of trade, or other similar offenses relating to the regulation of business practices, or
    (B) any State offense classified by the laws of the State as a misdemeanor and punishable by a term of imprisonment of two years or less.
    Last edited by knight0334; September 22nd, 2008 at 02:11 PM.
    RIP: SFN, 1861, twoeggsup, Lambo, jamesjo, JayBell, 32 Magnum, Pro2A, mrwildroot, dregan, Frenchy, Fragger, ungawa, Mtn Jack, Grapeshot, R.W.J., PennsyPlinker, Statkowski, Deanimator, roland, aubie515

    Don't end up in my signature!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Brookville, Pennsylvania
    (Jefferson County)
    Age
    51
    Posts
    20,076
    Rep Power
    21474874

    Default Re: Felon vs Non-Felon / 922 / 6105 etc.

    Just looked at 6105's list of offenses - corruption of a minor is prohibiting two ways. Once by name in State law, second by exceeding the 2 year exemption for state misdemeanors under Federal law.
    RIP: SFN, 1861, twoeggsup, Lambo, jamesjo, JayBell, 32 Magnum, Pro2A, mrwildroot, dregan, Frenchy, Fragger, ungawa, Mtn Jack, Grapeshot, R.W.J., PennsyPlinker, Statkowski, Deanimator, roland, aubie515

    Don't end up in my signature!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    PA, Pennsylvania
    (Delaware County)
    Posts
    3,604
    Rep Power
    1246703

    Default Re: Felon vs Non-Felon / 922 / 6105 etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by knight0334 View Post
    Just looked at 6105's list of offenses - corruption of a minor is prohibiting two ways. Once by name in State law, second by exceeding the 2 year exemption for state misdemeanors under Federal law.
    So under 6105.... time of sentence does not matter? If someone is convicted of say Aggravated assault for 1 month, they are now prohibited from owning firearms? Prohibited in just in PA or everywhere?

    (a) Offense defined.--
    (1) A person who has been convicted of an offense enumerated in subsection (b), within or without this Commonwealth, regardless of the length of sentence or whose conduct meets the criteria in subsection (c) shall not possess, use, control, sell, transfer or manufacture or obtain a license to possess, use, control, sell, transfer or manufacture a firearm in this Commonwealth.
    then it goes on to say this...

    (a.1) Penalty.--
    (1) A person convicted of a felony enumerated under subsection (b)
    so if something in section B was an M1... that would be different than an F1?
    Last edited by BimmerJon; August 14th, 2011 at 12:53 AM.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Brookville, Pennsylvania
    (Jefferson County)
    Age
    51
    Posts
    20,076
    Rep Power
    21474874

    Default Re: Felon vs Non-Felon / 922 / 6105 etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by BimmerJon View Post
    So under 6105.... time of sentence does not matter? If someone is convicted of say Aggravated assault for 1 month, they are now prohibited from owning firearms? Prohibited in just in PA or everywhere? If the possible sentence exceeds 2 years you a prohibited in the entire USA for life, regardless what the judge gives you. If it is enumerated in 6105, you are prohibited in PA.



    then it goes on to say this...



    so if something in section B was an M1... that would be different than an F1? If something is in 6105(b), its is prohibiting in PA. You first have to see if you pass the federal prohibitions of felony, 2 years state misdemeanor, or any misdemeanor domestic violence. Then after after that you have to see if the crime is enumerated in 6105, and how it is qualifies as a prohibiter. Each offense in 6105 has it's own limits. Some say only after so many convictions, some have no limits, just a conviction of such - or a conviction in a state of a similar law.
    In red above.

    If it isn't a F1, then it isn't an F1. It is what the state says it is. 6105 also says that convictions in other states of similar laws are prohibiting. ...say, if in CA it is just a summary offense for a certain crime, but in PA it is a enumerated under 6105 - you are prohibited in PA from possessing, carrying, owning a gun.
    Last edited by knight0334; August 14th, 2011 at 02:27 AM.
    RIP: SFN, 1861, twoeggsup, Lambo, jamesjo, JayBell, 32 Magnum, Pro2A, mrwildroot, dregan, Frenchy, Fragger, ungawa, Mtn Jack, Grapeshot, R.W.J., PennsyPlinker, Statkowski, Deanimator, roland, aubie515

    Don't end up in my signature!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    PA, Pennsylvania
    (Delaware County)
    Posts
    3,604
    Rep Power
    1246703

    Default Re: Felon vs Non-Felon / 922 / 6105 etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by knight0334 View Post
    In red above.

    If it isn't a F1, then it isn't an F1. It is what the state says it is. 6105 also says that convictions in other states of similar laws are prohibiting. ...say, if in CA it is just a summary offense for a certain crime, but in PA it is a enumerated under 6105 - you are prohibited in PA from possessing, carrying, owning a gun.
    Thanks!

    ........

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Harrisburg, Pennsylvania
    (Dauphin County)
    Posts
    1,889
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: Felon vs Non-Felon / 922 / 6105 etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cisco View Post
    However, U.S. v Bowdach, 414 F. Supp. 1346 (D.S. Fla 1976), aff`d, 561 F.2d 1160 (5th Cir. 1977). The court held that "possession of the shotgun by a non-felon has no legal consequences. U.S. Const. Amend. II."
    http://www.leagle.com/xmlResult.aspx...WAR1-1950-1985 which is the actual opinion, seems to suggest that what was actually held was that if an officer or judge can grasp any excuse to justify an exigent circumstances search, they can and will: the shotgun has a prima facie prohibited character ("sawn off", apparently without regard to actual length, following (uncited) U.S. v. Miller (1939)), the character of the possession is prima facie prohibited, and can in any way whatsoever be connected to a prohibited person, or someone they can relate to the gun is agitated. The quote above neither precedes or follows substantive citation or analysis.

    What I suspect would be provided by a judge to justify the prohibition at beyond 1 year max jail time is that when we moved culturally from felonies being capital crimes, that the federal government has understood that a felony is constituted by any crime having the max jail term beyond one year, regardless of the moniker given to the class of crime by the jurisdiction. 18 USC 3559 would be put forth as conforming, and perhaps even as controlling under the Supremacy Clause. It's probable that at some level of the judiciary this has already been articulated.

    I'm not sure how the disparity between years would be justified for the purpose of state offenses simply termed 'misdemeanors', nor do I understand how the possibility for 1 year in jail could be equated to a possible sentence of death or what was borderline revoked citizenship (i.e. the original felony). But I am sure that the courts can and would find a way to gloss it...all of it, and come to the conclusion that more people ought to be banned than could be.

Similar Threads

  1. convicted felon owning a handgun
    By c.sander in forum General
    Replies: 77
    Last Post: October 29th, 2014, 01:54 PM
  2. Felon
    By sjl127 in forum General
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: July 31st, 2008, 02:12 PM
  3. Accidental Felon
    By sgser in forum General
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: March 4th, 2008, 12:21 PM
  4. Army Lets a Felon Join Up, but N.Y.P.D. Will Not
    By larrymeyer in forum General
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: January 6th, 2008, 06:16 PM
  5. Purchasing Firearm or LTCF as a Felon
    By Montanya in forum General
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: November 12th, 2007, 10:49 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •