Read this before you come to Jersey......

[Carnes]

The number of laws, and the nuances among them have clearly become to complex and burdensome for the common person to be expected to follow. 'Ignorance of the law,' can soon become a legitimate defense. The implications are problematic at best, but it is time regardless.

[GunLawyer001]

The number of laws, and the nuances among them have clearly become to complex and burdensome for the common person to be expected to follow. 'Ignorance of the law,' can soon become a legitimate defense. The implications are problematic at best, but it is time regardless.

It's a defense right now, but only in a very limited context.

It's not permissible to argue that the law is too complicated or arcane for the defendant to have known that the act was unlawful; if there's some statute that outlaws "dropping empty whipped cream cans in the regular trash", you can't argue that you didn't know it was illegal.

But you CAN argue that you didn't know it was a whipped cream can, or that it was the regular trash can. Those are "fact" issues, not legal.

In the same way, the 4473 asks you "fact" questions that are simply disguised "legal" questions. People don't go to jail for misinterpreting statutes and making mistakes of law in simply answering questions; when asked, essentially, "at the time you were convicted of that crime, what was the maximum statutory penalty allowed for any defendant?" This isn't always an easy question. It's hard for most people to access the 1980 version of PA statutes. And if you want to know what the maximum applicable penalty could have been for a 2005 DUI, you literally have to read 2 multi-option sections from the Vehicle Code, then go to the Crimes Code to review the penalties for various grades of offenses.

In other words, it's not a lie to misunderstand the legal question and fail to provide the correct answer. It's a mistake. Not like "I made a mistake when I robbed that store", more like "I answered Question 11 wrong on the SAT's."

Our population is being trained to skim over the fine print and give the required answer; we're told regularly "press 'I AGREE' to accept the linked contract, or else your session ends now". Not much different than "if you answer 'YES' to that question I won't even call PICS and you can't have a gun".

Read the 4473 from start to finish, INCLUDING the instructions and re-defined terms on the back. While standing in a crowded gun show, delaying the shop owner. Tell me if there's any incentive to skip to the end and just press the "I AGREE" equivalent.

[JenniferG]

The laws are written today and for some time before to make them so complicated the average person cannot possibly know what is legal or illegal. It's done on purpose so that government has complete control over the lives of citizens. That's why it's un Constitutional to write laws that the common person can't understand and this is just more proof that the Constitution no longer matters to those that have taken an oath to defend that Constitution. Remember as in the case of New Jersey and other socialist states that those with the guns make the rules.

[Jhaydeno]

The laws are written today and for some time before to make them so complicated the average person cannot possibly know what is legal or illegal. It's done on purpose so that government has complete control over the lives of citizens. That's why it's un Constitutional to write laws that the common person can't understand and this is just more proof that the Constitution no longer matters to those that have taken an oath to defend that Constitution. Remember as in the case of New Jersey and other socialist states that those with the guns make the rules.

Forget the laws, how about the 76,000 pages of tax code?!?! For example, did you know there's a substantial direct credit for rehabbing a building constructed before 1935 if you put it into commercial use? Neither do 95% of accountants.

Herman Cain was my hero, providing a tax plan everyone could understand: 9/9/9. Though I'm no fan of Trump (I voted for Trump because he wasn't HilLIARy), I am optimistic that he may be one of the few people who can begin to streamline govt.

[PhillySoldier]

NJ DEALER CAUGHT WITH 83 BRICKS OF HEROIN GETS 6 MONTHS OF REHAB, NO PRISON.

http://nj1015.com/nj-dealer-caught-w...hab-no-prison/

[GunLawyer001]

NJ DEALER CAUGHT WITH 83 BRICKS OF HEROIN GETS 6 MONTHS OF REHAB, NO PRISON.

http://nj1015.com/nj-dealer-caught-w...hab-no-prison/

I suppose that we SHOULD NOT take from this the lesson that if you're going to carry a gun into NJ, you should be sure to also bring a pound or 2 of heroin, to avoid jail time?

[RockIsland]

I suppose that we SHOULD NOT take from this the lesson that if you're going to carry a gun into NJ, you should be sure to also bring a pound or 2 of heroin, to avoid jail time?

Well, to be fair, you would have a much higher probability of the gun charges being dropped.

[Walleye Hunter]

Well, to be fair, you would have a much higher probability of the gun charges being dropped.

Now that's an interesting concept.

[Hodgie]

There was an update made by the woman who was the subject of this thread made yesterday on her Go Fund Me.

https://www.gofundme.com/donna-grace...campaign=upd_n

Update 15
Posted by Donna Gracey
15 hours ago
Share

Court in NJ went very well. The 2nd degree felony gun charge has been dropped, leaving the 4th degree bullet charge. The traffic tickets have been dropped. I have one year PTI (we were going to be happy with two). I can get my gun back after PTI is completed successfully. I do not have to go back to NJ. I want to say thank you for your generous help. You kept me out of prison and I am grateful and humbled by all the kind donations.
Help spread the word!

[PhillySoldier]

There was an update made by the woman who was the subject of this thread made yesterday on her Go Fund Me.

https://www.gofundme.com/donna-grace...campaign=upd_n

Thats great to hear!