Response to Mass Shootings: The Cost of Freedom

[PocketProtector]

The only reason these school shootings occur, or at least occur to this level, is because the Libtards refuse to put in the final and decisive layer of security in these schools......men with a gun.
My wife works in a school......they have multiple layers of security, all good things, but perps do plan and plan to evade the layers they know about.....there must be something ultimately that will STOP them...and the one and only thing is FORCE.

[ImminentDanger]

All of these FAILS by the government programs - Yet people are still demanding that the government should solve this type of problem...

THE GOVERNMENT HAS FAILED!! And will inevitably continue to do so...

Yet, they demand that the government should blame & punish law-abiding people for the failures of the government...

https://www.yahoo.com/news/anger-bub...034853160.html

"Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel said his office had received more than 20 calls about Cruz in the past few years."

"Florida's child welfare agency investigated after Cruz cut himself in an online video, but found him stable, according to state records."

"The FBI said a person close to Cruz called the FBI's tip line and provided information about Cruz's weapons and his erratic behavior. The caller was concerned Cruz could attack a school. The agency acknowledged the tip should have been shared with the FBI's Miami office and investigated, but it was not."

"demanded on Saturday that immediate action be taken on gun-control legislation, insisting they would not relent until their demands were met."

Did they ban backpacks for all the students because he had bullets in his? He wore clothes during the assault - Should all students be banned from wearing clothes? He used Uber to get to the school - Should Uber be held liable? Banned from schools? Removed from society? Should that particular brand and model of car be banned from production, all models recalled & non-compliant owners fined or jailed?

If he had driven a car into the exiting students at the entrance to the building would they be calling for a ban on cars? Or would they be calling for car barriers in front of the school? Should all society go car-less because of the inappropriate actions of someone (or even a few) using a car? Or should the school be protected from people who misuse cars?

Grieving people often have clouded minds - They should mourn for their loved ones - They should process the valid grief they feel for the loss... My condolences go out to these families...


But calm and clear thinking minds should prevail when looking for valid and effective solutions to minimizing these tragedies...

...

[God's Country]

All of these FAILS by the government programs - Yet people are still demanding that the government should solve this type of problem...

Mind boggling isn't it?

Doesn't matter what the issue is. The result is always the same.

[mosseater]

I have read the statistic by those like Ayoob, et al, but have not committed them to memory, so forgive my lack of sourcing and supporting evidence. Based on my reading, what does virtually every school shooter do when confronted with equal force? Here's a hint: they need to cut to the chase and shoot themselves before others. There is a message there... and assholes ignore it at their peril. Unfortunately, those who ignore it and are tasked with a solution don't pay the final price. Our children do.

[ImminentDanger]

For the basic concept of freedom to succeed, in America or anywhere, there needs to be trust between citizens. Oppressive regimes, like China, create Orwellian societies based on distorted information and mistrust. When the government and the media take devastating aberrant events and hype them as a common danger, imminent to every citizen, those distorted perspectives help to destroy trust between citizens. The continued bold-faced lying, by the so-called 'political representatives' and supposed unbiased media, are major contributors to the destruction of trust in this nation.

Guns are inanimate objects - inert - like hammers, bats, pitchforks, knives, cars, tractors, etc. We call them inanimate because they cannot choose to move and act on their own. They cannot of themselves produce violence.

If you have watched the violent movies created in the past 30 years, you have seen many everyday inanimate objects used by bad people to assault others. You've probably also seen 'good guys' use some of the same objects in defending against violent attacks. Inanimate objects are violence neutral - even after someone uses one in a violent way, it remains neutral without the ability to itself produce evil violence.

The governmental efforts to curtail the sale and possession of inanimate objects, based on the way they look, or because some nefarious person used them in an inappropriate way, is a failure of great magnitude. It fails to understand the source of dangerous violence. It is not in the nature of those objects to assault people, no matter how they look. On the other hand, nefarious persons who don't value life (their own or others), who lack reasonable coping skills to deal with the disappointments of life and/or those who expect others to provide for their own satisfaction or happiness in life, do sometimes create evil violence with inanimate objects, whether those objects are beautiful or ugly.

As within other oppressive regimes, the more often the idea of 'guilty until proven innocent' is promoted as a solution to evil people doing evil things, the faster and more thoroughly the concept of freedom will be destroyed. Laws that redefine reasonable and innocuous behavior as criminal, as though every citizen had nefarious intentions, is the road to hell based on 'guilty until proven innocent'.

The founding fathers created a republic where THE PEOPLE should enjoy Every Right (along with their responsibilities) while the government (state or federal) is only granted limited power to arbitrate between free people so as to minimize conflicts. The very 'self-evident' concepts and ideas, regarding a free nation of self-governing people promoted by the founding fathers, have become foreign thinking to many people in the 21st century. The founders never envisioned the government being called upon to establish societal norms but they clearly saw that a disrespect by the government of the God-given rights of individuals to self-determination would, like many other nations, create oppression of every kind.

Innocent until proven guilty is a concept of tolerance and is necessary for freedom and trust. Our laws should be based on punishing those who actually act against society, not those who think or talk differently. When the government begins legislating based on potential harm (criminality), such as with predictive law enforcement, rather than only against actual harmful behavior, the slippery slope to oppression has been established.

Freedom will always have costs. Those who are unwilling to pay the costs (personally) are the ones who clamor most for the 'guilty until proven innocent' approach. They are very happy to impose restrictions of freedoms on others out of a hypertensive fear that no one can be trusted but those who think exactly as themselves. The myths of safety they embrace are used to impose their distorted perception of reality, and necessary restrictions of freedoms, onto others.

This thoughtless, self-inflicted, societal disease, of 'guilty until proven innocent', is reaching epidemic proportions.

Red Flag Laws are being promoted everywhere:
https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/researc...er-due-process

...

[ImminentDanger]

Since the standards of decent behavior have been under assault since the 60's, the very basis of responding to aberrant behavior has been removed. The government has made it difficult if not impossible for parents or teachers to deal effectively with disruptive & unruly students. They have, instead, demanded that those very students remain in the classroom or home, creating interpersonal conflicts and confrontations that eventually lead to exactly this type of violent lashing out.

And California, once again, proves they are in the forefront of the destruction of American values:

California Governor bans schools from suspending disruptive kids
https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics...234912107.html

...

[MMH]

For the basic concept of freedom to succeed, in America or anywhere, there needs to be trust between citizens. Oppressive regimes, like China, create Orwellian societies based on distorted information and mistrust. When the government and the media take devastating aberrant events and hype them as a common danger, imminent to every citizen, those distorted perspectives help to destroy trust between citizens. The continued bold-faced lying, by the so-called 'political representatives' and supposed unbiased media, are major contributors to the destruction of trust in this nation.

Guns are inanimate objects - inert - like hammers, bats, pitchforks, knives, cars, tractors, etc. We call them inanimate because they cannot choose to move and act on their own. They cannot of themselves produce violence.

If you have watched the violent movies created in the past 30 years, you have seen many everyday inanimate objects used by bad people to assault others. You've probably also seen 'good guys' use some of the same objects in defending against violent attacks. Inanimate objects are violence neutral - even after someone uses one in a violent way, it remains neutral without the ability to itself produce evil violence.

The governmental efforts to curtail the sale and possession of inanimate objects, based on the way they look, or because some nefarious person used them in an inappropriate way, is a failure of great magnitude. It fails to understand the source of dangerous violence. It is not in the nature of those objects to assault people, no matter how they look. On the other hand, nefarious persons who don't value life (their own or others), who lack reasonable coping skills to deal with the disappointments of life and/or those who expect others to provide for their own satisfaction or happiness in life, do sometimes create evil violence with inanimate objects, whether those objects are beautiful or ugly.

As within other oppressive regimes, the more often the idea of 'guilty until proven innocent' is promoted as a solution to evil people doing evil things, the faster and more thoroughly the concept of freedom will be destroyed. Laws that redefine reasonable and innocuous behavior as criminal, as though every citizen had nefarious intentions, is the road to hell based on 'guilty until proven innocent'.

The founding fathers created a republic where THE PEOPLE should enjoy Every Right (along with their responsibilities) while the government (state or federal) is only granted limited power to arbitrate between free people so as to minimize conflicts. The very 'self-evident' concepts and ideas, regarding a free nation of self-governing people promoted by the founding fathers, have become foreign thinking to many people in the 21st century. The founders never envisioned the government being called upon to establish societal norms but they clearly saw that a disrespect by the government of the God-given rights of individuals to self-determination would, like many other nations, create oppression of every kind.

Innocent until proven guilty is a concept of tolerance and is necessary for freedom and trust. Our laws should be based on punishing those who actually act against society, not those who think or talk differently. When the government begins legislating based on potential harm (criminality), such as with predictive law enforcement, rather than only against actual harmful behavior, the slippery slope to oppression has been established.

Freedom will always have costs. Those who are unwilling to pay the costs (personally) are the ones who clamor most for the 'guilty until proven innocent' approach. They are very happy to impose restrictions of freedoms on others out of a hypertensive fear that no one can be trusted but those who think exactly as themselves. The myths of safety they embrace are used to impose their distorted perception of reality, and necessary restrictions of freedoms, onto others.

This thoughtless, self-inflicted, societal disease, of 'guilty until proven innocent', is reaching epidemic proportions.

Red Flag Laws are being promoted everywhere:
https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/researc...er-due-process

...

You have presented very well thought out arguments. Thank you.

[icp4life162005]

Very good posts.


I'd like to make a point to many though, most i think already understand it, some will take some time.

These rabid liberals, are being force fed that Trump IS the new Fuhrer.
I think they are clamoring for war. There is a massive ideological split between the sheep and the sheep dogs, while the wolves are circling and spooking the herds.


End of History/End of Days Theory, along with Revelations, have never been so fitting.

[ImminentDanger]

Here we are again - Another senseless shooting spree by a troubled youth who did not get the attention (discipline & help) required when he began having issues. It's unlikely we'll hear all the details of his very-short life, but some are mentioned in the attached news story (if it is accurate). Now that it is over, people will politicize the horrible actions he took in order to pursue their own ideological & political benefit. These are tragic events where everyone involved was a victim of something evil.

I won't repeat all that I've previously posted in this thread about the cost of freedom. But I will reiterate that these perpetrators have come to embrace evil and are most responsible for their own actions. That in no way absolves society and those closest to him from their moral responsibility to try to help him BEFORE he went over the edge. Were these kids ever really cared about? Mother? Father? Too busy with 'It's about ME' to provide care for the child they produced? Did society support the parents or counter their efforts for a positive upbringing?

Were these kids ever disciplined in love to correct their early mistakes. Society & Government has attacked moral teachings for a long time. Was he ever exposed to the concept of an inner moral conscience? Of right & wrong?

Bullying in schools has always existed. Did any adult try to prevent that or help him deal with it without violence? Was he ever exposed to the idea that he, within himself, has value irrelevant of what others think or say? Not selfish valuation, but of personal respect & responsibility.

Government interference in family and institutional discipline (as stated earlier) can often be seen as one of the damning barricades to corrective actions that might have altered the future of this young man's life. Society has promoted broadly (and in the schools) such a 'Victim Mentality' of excuses for bad behavior that it has erased the concept that, despite any failures of your upbringing, YOU, PERSONALLY, are responsible for your actions. This is one of the concepts that should be taught in the schools.

There are NO EXCUSES for such evil acts. I feel sorrow & mourning for every one of those who have been injured or killed and for those who have lost their loved ones in this evil act.

But destroying the freedom of law-abiding citizens thru gun control will never be the right answer to evil intents & actions. Other inanimate objects can, and will, be wielded when an evil intent turns into an act of violence because there is no internal moral conscience against such actions.

This is another example of a Gun-Free-Zone being the preferred venue for senseless violence!


Suspected Uvalde gunman displayed violent tendencies before school massacre
by Victor I. Nava - May 25, 2022
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/n...ooting-reports

The man who authorities believe opened fire inside a Texas elementary school, killing 19 students and two teachers on Tuesday, displayed violent tendencies and had a troubled home and school life, according to reports.

Friends, family, neighbors, and co-workers of 18-year-old Salvador Ramos, the suspected gunman, told media outlets in the aftermath of the shooting at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas, that Ramos was generally quiet but at times could be threatening, violent, and displayed unstable behavior.

A neighbor recalled arguments between Ramos and his mother that were serious enough to lead to police coming to the house Ramos lived in with his mother until recently, according to a report. In at least one of these cases, the suspected shooter reportedly posted a video on Instagram of him "screaming" at his mother while police were present. The report noted that multiple people close to Ramos's family said his mother was a drug user.

The suspected shooter reportedly also had trouble in school, dropping out of Uvalde High School. A high school classmate of Ramos recalled him being involved in at least five fistfights with classmates, according to a report.

"He wasn't very much of a social person," a cousin of the suspected school shooter told a media outlet, claiming Ramos was bullied in school for stuttering. Other friends and family members also claimed that Ramos was mocked in school for having a lisp, as well as for wearing eyeliner, according to a report.

Reports have also emerged about other disturbing behavior from Ramos prior to the shooting. A friend of Ramos told a media outlet that he once showed up at a park basketball court with cuts all over his face, claiming that he had used knives to cut up his own face for fun. The friend also claimed Ramos would drive around at night with another person to shoot people with a BB gun and throw eggs at cars.

A woman who worked alongside Ramos at a Wendy's restaurant claimed he could be "very rude" and "threatening" toward women and one of the cooks at the restaurant, according to a report. "He would be very rude towards the girls sometimes and one of the cooks, threatening them by asking, 'Do you know who I am?' And he would also send inappropriate texts to the ladies," Ramos's former co-worker said in the report. The woman also said she had seen videos of Ramos "trying to fight people with boxing gloves," which he would carry around with him.

Ramos was shot and killed by a Border Patrol agent who arrived at the scene of the massacre. The agent was wounded in the gun battle.

Police believe Ramos shot his grandmother before the mass shooting at the elementary school.

Authorities have not released a motive for the shooting.

We'll never know if anyone could have intervened in his early life to create self-respect & respect for others that might have averted his evil act.

...

[free]

Bullying in schools has always existed. Did any adult try to prevent that or help him deal with it without violence? Was he ever exposed to the idea that he, within himself, has value irrelevant of what others think or say? Not selfish valuation, but of personal respect & responsibility.

You forgot to ask whether the bullies ever got the asses paddled and generally severely punished, so as to discourage their fuckwit behaviour.