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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Response to Mass Shootings: The Cost of Freedom

    The only reason these school shootings occur, or at least occur to this level, is because the Libtards refuse to put in the final and decisive layer of security in these schools......men with a gun.
    My wife works in a school......they have multiple layers of security, all good things, but perps do plan and plan to evade the layers they know about.....there must be something ultimately that will STOP them...and the one and only thing is FORCE.
    "In 4 TRUMP years or less, you will love how America looks....I GUARANTEE it."

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Response to Mass Shootings: The Cost of Freedom

    All of these FAILS by the government programs - Yet people are still demanding that the government should solve this type of problem...

    THE GOVERNMENT HAS FAILED!! And will inevitably continue to do so...

    Yet, they demand that the government should blame & punish law-abiding people for the failures of the government...

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/anger-bub...034853160.html

    "Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel said his office had received more than 20 calls about Cruz in the past few years."

    "Florida's child welfare agency investigated after Cruz cut himself in an online video, but found him stable, according to state records."

    "The FBI said a person close to Cruz called the FBI's tip line and provided information about Cruz's weapons and his erratic behavior. The caller was concerned Cruz could attack a school. The agency acknowledged the tip should have been shared with the FBI's Miami office and investigated, but it was not."

    "demanded on Saturday that immediate action be taken on gun-control legislation, insisting they would not relent until their demands were met."

    Did they ban backpacks for all the students because he had bullets in his? He wore clothes during the assault - Should all students be banned from wearing clothes? He used Uber to get to the school - Should Uber be held liable? Banned from schools? Removed from society? Should that particular brand and model of car be banned from production, all models recalled & non-compliant owners fined or jailed?

    If he had driven a car into the exiting students at the entrance to the building would they be calling for a ban on cars? Or would they be calling for car barriers in front of the school? Should all society go car-less because of the inappropriate actions of someone (or even a few) using a car? Or should the school be protected from people who misuse cars?

    Grieving people often have clouded minds - They should mourn for their loved ones - They should process the valid grief they feel for the loss... My condolences go out to these families...


    But calm and clear thinking minds should prevail when looking for valid and effective solutions to minimizing these tragedies...

    ...
    Last edited by ImminentDanger; September 3rd, 2019 at 10:28 PM.

  3. #23
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    Northern Tier, Pennsylvania
    (McKean County)
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    Default Re: Response to Mass Shootings: The Cost of Freedom

    Quote Originally Posted by ImminentDanger View Post
    All of these FAILS by the government programs - Yet people are still demanding that the government should solve this type of problem...

    Mind boggling isn't it?

    Doesn't matter what the issue is. The result is always the same.

  4. #24
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    age: 57 Dillsburg, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: Response to Mass Shootings: The Cost of Freedom

    I have read the statistic by those like Ayoob, et al, but have not committed them to memory, so forgive my lack of sourcing and supporting evidence. Based on my reading, what does virtually every school shooter do when confronted with equal force? Here's a hint: they need to cut to the chase and shoot themselves before others. There is a message there... and assholes ignore it at their peril. Unfortunately, those who ignore it and are tasked with a solution don't pay the final price. Our children do.

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Response to Mass Shootings: The Cost of Freedom

    For the basic concept of freedom to succeed, in America or anywhere, there needs to be trust between citizens. Oppressive regimes, like China, create Orwellian societies based on distorted information and mistrust. When the government and the media take devastating aberrant events and hype them as a common danger, imminent to every citizen, those distorted perspectives help to destroy trust between citizens. The continued bold-faced lying, by the so-called 'political representatives' and supposed unbiased media, are major contributors to the destruction of trust in this nation.

    Guns are inanimate objects - inert - like hammers, bats, pitchforks, knives, cars, tractors, etc. We call them inanimate because they cannot choose to move and act on their own. They cannot of themselves produce violence.

    If you have watched the violent movies created in the past 30 years, you have seen many everyday inanimate objects used by bad people to assault others. You've probably also seen 'good guys' use some of the same objects in defending against violent attacks. Inanimate objects are violence neutral - even after someone uses one in a violent way, it remains neutral without the ability to itself produce evil violence.

    The governmental efforts to curtail the sale and possession of inanimate objects, based on the way they look, or because some nefarious person used them in an inappropriate way, is a failure of great magnitude. It fails to understand the source of dangerous violence. It is not in the nature of those objects to assault people, no matter how they look. On the other hand, nefarious persons who don't value life (their own or others), who lack reasonable coping skills to deal with the disappointments of life and/or those who expect others to provide for their own satisfaction or happiness in life, do sometimes create evil violence with inanimate objects, whether those objects are beautiful or ugly.

    As within other oppressive regimes, the more often the idea of 'guilty until proven innocent' is promoted as a solution to evil people doing evil things, the faster and more thoroughly the concept of freedom will be destroyed. Laws that redefine reasonable and innocuous behavior as criminal, as though every citizen had nefarious intentions, is the road to hell based on 'guilty until proven innocent'.

    The founding fathers created a republic where THE PEOPLE should enjoy Every Right (along with their responsibilities) while the government (state or federal) is only granted limited power to arbitrate between free people so as to minimize conflicts. The very 'self-evident' concepts and ideas, regarding a free nation of self-governing people promoted by the founding fathers, have become foreign thinking to many people in the 21st century. The founders never envisioned the government being called upon to establish societal norms but they clearly saw that a disrespect by the government of the God-given rights of individuals to self-determination would, like many other nations, create oppression of every kind.

    Innocent until proven guilty is a concept of tolerance and is necessary for freedom and trust. Our laws should be based on punishing those who actually act against society, not those who think or talk differently. When the government begins legislating based on potential harm (criminality), such as with predictive law enforcement, rather than only against actual harmful behavior, the slippery slope to oppression has been established.

    Freedom will always have costs. Those who are unwilling to pay the costs (personally) are the ones who clamor most for the 'guilty until proven innocent' approach. They are very happy to impose restrictions of freedoms on others out of a hypertensive fear that no one can be trusted but those who think exactly as themselves. The myths of safety they embrace are used to impose their distorted perception of reality, and necessary restrictions of freedoms, onto others.

    This thoughtless, self-inflicted, societal disease, of 'guilty until proven innocent', is reaching epidemic proportions.

    Red Flag Laws are being promoted everywhere:
    https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/researc...er-due-process

    ...
    Last edited by ImminentDanger; September 6th, 2019 at 02:44 PM.

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Response to Mass Shootings: The Cost of Freedom

    Quote Originally Posted by ImminentDanger View Post
    Since the standards of decent behavior have been under assault since the 60's, the very basis of responding to aberrant behavior has been removed. The government has made it difficult if not impossible for parents or teachers to deal effectively with disruptive & unruly students. They have, instead, demanded that those very students remain in the classroom or home, creating interpersonal conflicts and confrontations that eventually lead to exactly this type of violent lashing out.
    And California, once again, proves they are in the forefront of the destruction of American values:

    California Governor bans schools from suspending disruptive kids
    https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics...234912107.html

    ...

  7. #27
    Join Date
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    Murrysville, Pennsylvania
    (Westmoreland County)
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    Default Re: Response to Mass Shootings: The Cost of Freedom

    Quote Originally Posted by ImminentDanger View Post
    For the basic concept of freedom to succeed, in America or anywhere, there needs to be trust between citizens. Oppressive regimes, like China, create Orwellian societies based on distorted information and mistrust. When the government and the media take devastating aberrant events and hype them as a common danger, imminent to every citizen, those distorted perspectives help to destroy trust between citizens. The continued bold-faced lying, by the so-called 'political representatives' and supposed unbiased media, are major contributors to the destruction of trust in this nation.

    Guns are inanimate objects - inert - like hammers, bats, pitchforks, knives, cars, tractors, etc. We call them inanimate because they cannot choose to move and act on their own. They cannot of themselves produce violence.

    If you have watched the violent movies created in the past 30 years, you have seen many everyday inanimate objects used by bad people to assault others. You've probably also seen 'good guys' use some of the same objects in defending against violent attacks. Inanimate objects are violence neutral - even after someone uses one in a violent way, it remains neutral without the ability to itself produce evil violence.

    The governmental efforts to curtail the sale and possession of inanimate objects, based on the way they look, or because some nefarious person used them in an inappropriate way, is a failure of great magnitude. It fails to understand the source of dangerous violence. It is not in the nature of those objects to assault people, no matter how they look. On the other hand, nefarious persons who don't value life (their own or others), who lack reasonable coping skills to deal with the disappointments of life and/or those who expect others to provide for their own satisfaction or happiness in life, do sometimes create evil violence with inanimate objects, whether those objects are beautiful or ugly.

    As within other oppressive regimes, the more often the idea of 'guilty until proven innocent' is promoted as a solution to evil people doing evil things, the faster and more thoroughly the concept of freedom will be destroyed. Laws that redefine reasonable and innocuous behavior as criminal, as though every citizen had nefarious intentions, is the road to hell based on 'guilty until proven innocent'.

    The founding fathers created a republic where THE PEOPLE should enjoy Every Right (along with their responsibilities) while the government (state or federal) is only granted limited power to arbitrate between free people so as to minimize conflicts. The very 'self-evident' concepts and ideas, regarding a free nation of self-governing people promoted by the founding fathers, have become foreign thinking to many people in the 21st century. The founders never envisioned the government being called upon to establish societal norms but they clearly saw that a disrespect by the government of the God-given rights of individuals to self-determination would, like many other nations, create oppression of every kind.

    Innocent until proven guilty is a concept of tolerance and is necessary for freedom and trust. Our laws should be based on punishing those who actually act against society, not those who think or talk differently. When the government begins legislating based on potential harm (criminality), such as with predictive law enforcement, rather than only against actual harmful behavior, the slippery slope to oppression has been established.

    Freedom will always have costs. Those who are unwilling to pay the costs (personally) are the ones who clamor most for the 'guilty until proven innocent' approach. They are very happy to impose restrictions of freedoms on others out of a hypertensive fear that no one can be trusted but those who think exactly as themselves. The myths of safety they embrace are used to impose their distorted perception of reality, and necessary restrictions of freedoms, onto others.

    This thoughtless, self-inflicted, societal disease, of 'guilty until proven innocent', is reaching epidemic proportions.

    Red Flag Laws are being promoted everywhere:
    https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/researc...er-due-process

    ...
    You have presented very well thought out arguments. Thank you.

  8. #28
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    Belly of the BEAST, Pennsylvania
    (Montgomery County)
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    Default Re: Response to Mass Shootings: The Cost of Freedom

    Very good posts.


    I'd like to make a point to many though, most i think already understand it, some will take some time.

    These rabid liberals, are being force fed that Trump IS the new Fuhrer.
    I think they are clamoring for war. There is a massive ideological split between the sheep and the sheep dogs, while the wolves are circling and spooking the herds.


    End of History/End of Days Theory, along with Revelations, have never been so fitting.

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