Response to Mass Shootings: The Cost of Freedom

[free]

North Korea is probably a safe place for their citizens

You couldn’t be more wrong. Most of the population is malnourished at best and starving at worst. If you need further indicators of just not how safe it is for citizens of the DPRK, examine the fate of anyone suspected by its leadership of harbouring criticism or trying to leave the country.

[free]

Concur. "Deep Nuke" just doesn't have the same cachet as "Deep Throat".

Perhaps. But “deep throat it from orbit” Is not nearly as threatening as “nuke it from orbit” (albeit, possibly a more impressive feat, I grant you).

[KCJones]

How many millions died in soviet russia during Stalin's era?

How many millions died in Mao's china?

Both (not to minimize his evil) put Hitler to shame, by the numbers.

Freedom isn't free (or painless), but domination is even more costly.

The cost of freedom, though painful and deserving of honor and mourning, is paltry by comparison to the cost of non-freedom.

Would I happily and willingly send my son in harm's way to defend freedom? Hell no. I don't want my son to die or even risk it. Anyone who says otherwise is fooling themselves.

But would I grudgingly accept the necessity and respect his courage if he did or it was necessary? Yeah. If he was killed in the line of duty, would I cry and mourn? Yes. Would I be miserable? Yes. Would I hate the loss? Yes. Would I take some solace in what his sacrifice meant? ... Yes.

Would I stand up and do the same myself if necessary? Despite my years, Yep. Not happily, not enthusiastically (I have no -burning desire- to die for my country). Frankly if I could stand in my son's place instead, I'd certainly do that (I'm hella better with a rifle than him anyway...)

But I'd do it as a necessity, I'd accept it AS a necessity, and the last thought that passed my mind if I had to make the ultimate sacrifice would be defiant, unprintable and directed at the true enemies of freedom.

I concur with the poet: "Dulce et Decorum est pro Patria Mori" is bullshit. But when "Pro Patria Mori" is -necessary- and it's freedom on the line, I get it and I'd do it.

[KCJones]

You couldn’t be more wrong. Most of the population is malnourished at best and starving at worst. If you need further indicators of just not how safe it is for citizens of the DPRK, examine the fate of anyone suspected by its leadership of harbouring criticism or trying to leave the country.

Couldn't agree more. See post immediately above.

[ImminentDanger]

*OP is there a link or source? I like to give credit where it's due.

Those are my thoughts & words.

How many millions died in soviet russia during Stalin's era?
How many millions died in Mao's china?
Both (not to minimize his evil) put Hitler to shame, by the numbers.
Freedom isn't free (or painless), but domination is even more costly.
The cost of freedom, though painful and deserving of honor and mourning, is paltry by comparison to the cost of non-freedom.

Further thoughts are here: http://forum.pafoa.org/showthread.php?t=309728

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[ImminentDanger]

I'll reiterate my opening comment:
Let's mourn the victims and the suffering of their loved ones - This is the right thing to do...

But my original point still stands - Freedom is NOT FREE !

If we still believe in Freedom (as Constitutionally outlined), then further control of law-abiding citizens (AKA gun-control) is morally indefensible - The existing laws have already demonstrated the ineffectiveness of treating most law-abiding citizens as if they were criminals-in-waiting while our liberal-leaning government & society itself is creating the underlying roots of School Shootings where morality & discipliine have systematically & aggressively been damned, thus eliminating many of the effective solutions which were utilized in the past to deal with parental failures or aberrant personalities...

ab·er·rant - departing from an accepted standard.

Since the standards of decent behavior have been under assault since the 60's, the very basis of responding to aberrant behavior has been removed. The government has made it difficult if not impossible for parents or teachers to deal effectively with disruptive & unruly students. They have, instead, demanded that those very students remain in the classroom or home, creating interpersonal conflicts and confrontations that eventually lead to exactly this type of violent lashing out...

Governmental intervention has created the problem in many ways - It's nearly impossible that they will provide a reasonable solution...

A concerted, vocal conversation about personal responsibility must be reintroduced to our society. Universal solutions will never address the needs of aberrant personalities. Continued governmental interference in family & school life will only complicate further the necessary steps that are needed to compassionately and personally address the needs of those with mental health issues... Whatever governmental resources that are provided (not new laws imposing ineffective policies) need to be made available to local professional & family service groups that have the greatest chance of successfully supporting recovery of a positive value for self and others by those anti-social students...

ETA: I'll add that the tendency to medicate kids (or adults) rather than help them attain a positive, wholesome attitude toward themselves & society (again, the result of the assault on morality and self-discipline) has simply bottled up the underlying issues, often with terrible chemical & mental side effects to the drugs that purport to be helpful...

Let's do everything reasonable to be defensive with School Protections without violating the rights of law-abiding citizens - Armed Teachers or Paid Security, etc.

But - At some point, every person, including children, must be held accountable for their behavior - Our entire country and society is based on Freedom where Personal Responsibility engenders the Trust required for unsupervised choices - When the lack of self-respect & personal responsibility allows an individual to act out violently against others, then appropriate controls (family discipline, school discipline, juvenile facility or jail) must be imposed - and accepted by society as appropriate...

...

[Berncly]

Good posts.

[God's Country]

Every fucking time I hear some douche on TV lament "why does this only happen in the US" (the typical liberal lead in for every anti argument ever made), I have too scream "because every other fucking country isn't FREE". They may pretend they are, but they're not. We're barely holding to our freedoms in this country as it is without emotional assholes legislating morality.

[Pilot321]

Every fucking time I hear some douche on TV lament "why does this only happen in the US" (the typical liberal lead in for every anti argument ever made), I have too scream "because every other fucking country isn't FREE". They may pretend they are, but they're not. We're barely holding to our freedoms in this country as it is without emotional assholes legislating morality.

Mass shootings happen all over the world. The Progressives just don't want you to know that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers

[God's Country]

Mass shootings happen all over the world. The Progressives just don't want you to know that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers

I understand all that, and I just don't care.
I care about what happens in my country, and the fact is (as the point of the thread is) Freedom does indeed come with a cost, and the benefits of the 2A far outweigh the cost.
Plain and simple.

Failure of government is likely far more culpable then the freedom the 2A affords.

Preaching to the choir and all.