Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
Page 10 of 12 FirstFirst ... 6789101112 LastLast
Results 91 to 100 of 119
  1. #91
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    North West, Pennsylvania
    (Erie County)
    Posts
    1,537
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: More rounds vs. more power (e.g. 9mm vs. .45)

    Quote Originally Posted by streaker69 View Post
    Crazy ain't it? Next people will be saying that a 1911 is better than a Glock.
    Damn straight it is

  2. #92
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    York, Pennsylvania
    (York County)
    Posts
    1,411
    Rep Power
    21474845

    Default Re: More rounds vs. more power (e.g. 9mm vs. .45)

    Quote Originally Posted by Edg View Post
    What heavier hit? both hit with 450ish energy? Personally i carry a G26 comfortably in all weather which gives me 12 rounds....50% more.
    Honestly, respectfully, what part of "I know from experience I won't EDC a >1" thick gun" isn't getting across?

    A) I'm glad you're comfy with a G26 and it works for you. But for me it's 1.2" thick, same as G19. If I'm gonna carry a 1.2" thick gun, I might as well go for something like the 'full size' M&P 9 and have 17 rather than 12. But the fact is my experience shows I -won't- EDC a >1" thick pistol. Show me a 9mm gun <1" thick that has significant capacity advantage over .45 and we'll talk. For a round or two advantage, in a gun I'll actually carry, I'm sticking with .45.

    B) You're really saying a .45 (11.5mm) doesn't have more delivered energy to the target than 9mm (.35)? Okay fine... just makin' holes in paper, one can debate size + mass x velocity and all that. We can talk cavitation, wound channel, over-penetration (wasted energy not delivered to target) and such 'til the cows come home. For me, I'm going back to where I started: Apples/Apples basis I shoot a cabbage, or a melon, or a can with a .45 & a 9mm the damage is NOTABLY more with a .45. Even if those aren't 'human analogs' they remain valid apples/apples comparisons. Feel free to believe what you like. For me when I shoot item X at distance Y with 9mm and .45 and the .45 causes WAY more damage, I consider I've seen the proof in the pudding. Yeah, if you offer up double+ the number of rounds then there's a valid argument. Except you've also just moved me from a gun I will EDC to one I won't.

    To some extent, it's just physics. You just can't make a double-stack 9mm <1" thick. Single stacks run about 0.95" thick in either 9mm or .45. So 1/4" is the difference, and in terms of carrying, it's a huge difference. In single-stack, you don't have much round-advantage over .45. For ME (and yes, YMMV, but 'me' is the only metric I care about), a slim gun that I'll carry every day is the most important consideration. That means <1" thick, and that means no double-stacks need apply.
    Last edited by KCJones; January 5th, 2018 at 12:14 AM.
    DGAF

  3. #93
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    DelCo, Pennsylvania
    (Delaware County)
    Posts
    56
    Rep Power
    1612504

    Default Re: More rounds vs. more power (e.g. 9mm vs. .45)

    In my case, it depends upon the situation. Being in a surburban/semi-urban area, I'm more likely to go for round count in case of multiple threats. In a more rural setting, I might go for power. More times than not, I split the difference with .357 Sig.

    .45 fans, please be aware that personal defense rounds have made huge leaps, and 9mm is no longer the weak sister of the ballistics world. 9mm fans, please remember that the same advances make the .45 in a compact size a viable option.

  4. #94
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    York, Pennsylvania
    (York County)
    Posts
    1,411
    Rep Power
    21474845

    Default Re: More rounds vs. more power (e.g. 9mm vs. .45)

    Quote Originally Posted by lagco View Post
    .45 fans, please be aware that personal defense rounds have made huge leaps, and 9mm is no longer the weak sister of the ballistics world. 9mm fans, please remember that the same advances make the .45 in a compact size a viable option.
    Well said.

    In my case, though I obviously prefer a .45 for EDC, I'm certainly not in the "9mm sucks" camp and a higher-capacity 9mm is still my gun of choice for home defense (at least until I can get to the AR-15).

    Hell, if someone is coming into my home with ill intent, I'll go after 'em with BB's, my hands, a knife, a board, etc. if that's all I got (seriously, some of the full-auto BB guns out there are tempting just for kicks and giggles... and I have to wonder if tens-of-bb's-per-second in the face wouldn't have some real 'stopping' effect: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkNVYz9uajU).

    I do recognize the advances you mention mean we're discussing -marginal- differences.

    In my own situation with my constraints, which roughly stated amount to "9 shots of 9mm vs. 8 shots of .45 for EDC gun" I still admit it's splitting hairs, and mostly believe it's down to personal preference.

    Start talking about "but double the rounds of 9mm as .45" and you have a more significant argument. But it's not, in fact, an argument relevant for me for EDC, for the abundantly-stated reasons I've given several times.

    Having said that, you're absolutely right. Advances in both ammo and firearms have made the already-narrow difference between 9mm and .45 a debate largely driven by 'personal preference' factors rather than truly significant difference.

    I'll even add in a 'straw-man' argument nobody has really brought up yet: cost. .45 ammo costs more than 9mm. EVEN IF everyone agreed .45 is 'better' one could still say 'but what about folks that can only afford $X per year for ammo? Should they do more 9mm or less .45?"

    That's yet-another aspect to the debate.

    I guess the best thing I can say is this: I own 9mm and .45 pistols. I keep the same amount of ammo on hand (a few thousand rounds) for each. FWIW, I keep a bigger supply of .223 for my rifles. I'm mostly 'agnostic' about 9mm vs. .45 and recognize the benefits/drawbacks of each. For -practical- reasons, my .45 is my EDC gun and my 9mm is my home defense gun. I'm pretty well convinced that's the right choice for me. YMMV.
    Last edited by KCJones; January 5th, 2018 at 01:05 AM.
    DGAF

  5. #95
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    altoona, Pennsylvania
    (Blair County)
    Posts
    1,813
    Rep Power
    1726000

    Default Re: More rounds vs. more power (e.g. 9mm vs. .45)

    As far as comfortably concealing, Im a bigger guy, i could conceal pretty muc anything I want. The part that makes me comfortable is not printing. To me this comes down to grip height over thickness all day long. I cant stand guns that make it look like i have an elbow growing out of my shirt every time i bend over, so i stick with the sub compacts. Was a g29 for 8 years, now a g26 for the past 3.

  6. #96
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    York, Pennsylvania
    (York County)
    Posts
    1,411
    Rep Power
    21474845

    Default Re: More rounds vs. more power (e.g. 9mm vs. .45)

    Quote Originally Posted by Edg View Post
    As far as comfortably concealing, Im a bigger guy, i could conceal pretty muc anything I want. The part that makes me comfortable is not printing. To me this comes down to grip height over thickness all day long. I cant stand guns that make it look like i have an elbow growing out of my shirt every time i bend over, so i stick with the sub compacts. Was a g29 for 8 years, now a g26 for the past 3.
    Interesting perspective. For me, also a larger fellow, it seems to be about thickness (and printing is also my concern). Maybe just boils down to body shape/countour? I don't have a problem (with a moderate size gun) with the butt sticking out, I have a problem with the thicker guns leaning out sideways and printing via the edge of the grip rather than the end.
    DGAF

  7. #97
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Quakertown, Pennsylvania
    (Bucks County)
    Posts
    5,878
    Rep Power
    21474856

    Default Re: More rounds vs. more power (e.g. 9mm vs. .45)

    Quote Originally Posted by KCJones View Post
    Interesting perspective. For me, also a larger fellow, it seems to be about thickness (and printing is also my concern). Maybe just boils down to body shape/countour? I don't have a problem (with a moderate size gun) with the butt sticking out, I have a problem with the thicker guns leaning out sideways and printing via the edge of the grip rather than the end.
    If you make your belt tighter, the fat just squishes around it.

  8. #98
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    "The Country", Pennsylvania
    (Chester County)
    Posts
    2,443
    Rep Power
    21474849

    Default Re: More rounds vs. more power (e.g. 9mm vs. .45)

    I’ll take more rounds of 9mm over less rounds of .45 any day.
    "The Constitution is the guide which I will not abandon.” - George Washington

  9. #99
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    altoona, Pennsylvania
    (Blair County)
    Posts
    1,813
    Rep Power
    1726000

    Default Re: More rounds vs. more power (e.g. 9mm vs. .45)

    Quote Originally Posted by KCJones View Post
    Interesting perspective. For me, also a larger fellow, it seems to be about thickness (and printing is also my concern). Maybe just boils down to body shape/countour? I don't have a problem (with a moderate size gun) with the butt sticking out, I have a problem with the thicker guns leaning out sideways and printing via the edge of the grip rather than the end.
    I would think then that either your belt is too loose or your holster isnt good. I use Onyour6designs IWB for most of my guns they ride pretty low, I also turn their belt clip around so it rides under the belt and is like a j hook at the bottom. Only the grip is really above the beltline and if anything they point in towards my body instead of flopping outwards (which happens alot with my lesser OWB holsters). The only time I print is on full frame guns when i bent over the handle sticks out further then my back and you can see the bulge in my shirt. I carry at about 330. With the subcompacts there isnt enough grip to stick out past my hip rearwards so no printing even when splitting and stacking wood or bending down in the store. Ive tried the smaller single stack guns and i just cant draw or grip quickly as well as the meatier double stacks. Ive had an XDS and a G43 and bound both too small for me to feel comfortable with....My wifes LC9 is not terrible but i dont like the safety.

  10. #100
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    altoona, Pennsylvania
    (Blair County)
    Posts
    1,813
    Rep Power
    1726000

    Default Re: More rounds vs. more power (e.g. 9mm vs. .45)

    Im not trying to make you change your mind BTW, just expressing a differing viewpoint for other readers. There is nothing "wrong" with 45 ACP for defense (or offense). Carry what you like, your right, the most important thing is having a gun that you want to carry so you dont leave it in the car or house. Just saying with good gear (mostly holsters, $$$ doesnt equal quality or even functionality) I dont really notice any difference between a .95" and 1.2" wide gun....thats only .25" on a 36" waist...... off topic but a major problem i see with holsters is when a company makes a really good holster for a certain gun, it works great with that gun due to whatever metric....then they start mass producing it for other guns which are heavier/ blockier / longer /shorter and it just doesnt work, but through word of mouth from the original gun owners everyone thinks they are the greatest thing ever and cognitive dissonance doesnt permit them to admit they bough a 100$ POS holster that takes 5minutes and a dressing room to put on and adjust and just doesnt fit or cant support the weight of their gun. For anything less then a full sized steel pistol i like the single clip IWB kydex holsters like the one linked below....all for 30$ and a lifetime warranty.
    https://onyour6designs.com/product/s...esson-holster/

Page 10 of 12 FirstFirst ... 6789101112 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •