Out of State Permit - I got turned away?

[DonPA]

I was a PA resident for 20 yrs and last year moved out of state. I have a cc license from my current state of residence. My PA cc license is expiring so I went to the sheriffs office that issued it. The two deputies at the front security desk said its illegal for a PA sheriff to issue a cc license to a non-resident. I told them I did not think that was accurate so they let me go into the main office. The deputies working in the main office as well as the secretary had no clue about out of state situations and they also told me that they can't issue me a license because I do not have a Pennsylvania drivers license. finally the sheriff himself came out he explained to me that he refuses the issue licenses to anybody that was not a resident of his county. They were all very nice and I wished them well andjust left the office.

Can someone please clarify the out-of-state resident rules when it comes to licenses in Pennsylvania - thank you.

[KCJones]

http://www.pafoa.org/law/carrying-fi...non-residents/

Search is your friend...

[Krichardson]

I think the sheriff's refusal is backed by state law.

[wanneroo]

Find a county that will and get it done. Many sheriffs will not be of help.

[gnbrotz]

Legally, all sheriffs are required to issue non-resident permits. The statute says "shall issue", the same as for residents. If they refuse, your option is to look for another, or sue. The latter will cost you a few thousand dollars, and AFAIK, has never been done anywhere in the state.

[Gun]

He could fill the application, then let the sheriff deny the app.

Then the sheriff can it explain the denial to a judge.

IANAL.

[knight0334]

Erie, Crawford, Mercer, Venango, Jefferson, Centre, and Lackawanna counties are known to be friendly to non-residents.

[God's Country]

He could fill the application, then let the sheriff deny the app.

Then the sheriff can it explain the denial to a judge.

IANAL.

This is the road I would try.

When push comes to shove I bet most will issue.

[OwnTheRide]

Legally, all sheriffs are required to issue non-resident permits. The statute says "shall issue", the same as for residents. If they refuse, your option is to look for another, or sue. The latter will cost you a few thousand dollars, and AFAIK, has never been done anywhere in the state.

So far as I know, you are correct - no one has sued sheriffs for refusing to issue non-resident permits.

However, one sheriff was threatened with legal action and backed down juuuuuuuust enough to take away the citizen's legal standing. As you may recall, many counties that border NY have been refusing to accept applications from non-residents. By doing so, they avoid explicitly denying anyone's LTCF, despite their actions having essentially the same effect. Here's the story:

Back when the border counties started doing this, I stated that I would fight it if the county my LTCF was from (Susquehanna) started doing the same. My LTCF expired in April of 2016, so in February of that year, I reached out to GunLawyer and started laying down the groundwork. We worked together to form a plan of exactly what I would say, how I would act, and what information I would (try to) obtain. In early April, I went down to the Susquehanna County sheriff's office and submitted my application for renewal. It all went down exactly as expected/planned: they refused to accept my application (in fact, they wouldn't even let me past the metal detector until I put up a big stink). So I asked to speak to the sheriff. Sheriff Lance Benedict came out and told me that he hasn't accepted non-resident permits since 2013. I said that I knew I wasn't going to change his mind, but that I had a right under PA law to receive a certified letter detailing the reason(s) for my denial. He stated that he wasn't denying my application, just refusing to accept it. I informed him that that constituted what was known as a constructive denial, and that I would be forced to appeal his decision in the court of common pleas. There was a fair bit of chest-puffing and attempts to bait me into reacting poorly, particularly by Chief Deputy Jon Record, but I maintained my calm yet confident demeanor and refused to take the bait. When the sheriff realized I was not going to be goaded into reacting poorly, he asked me to step back into his office, and I agreed.

We had what I would describe as a cordial discussion, lasting about 45 minutes. He first explained his reasons for refusing non-resident applications: not getting informed of prohibitions/arrests/mental health issues/etc. I stated that I understood his position, but that he did not have the statutory authority to refuse applications. Under PA law, he is required to accept and process all applications, and approve or deny them within 45 days. Denials are limited to a set of criteria defined in PA § 6109. I repeated that while I did not expect to change his mind, that this was an important issue to me and that I would have to appeal this constructive denial in the court of common pleas.

He responded that I had the right to take him to court at any time, but that he would like me to wait a bit, as he was working on an agreement with Sheriff Harder (Broome County) to offer non-resident licenses between our counties. I told him that since I could still carry on my LTCF for six months past expiration, I would hold off filing for up to five months... but I made it clear that I would be filing. I left my contact information with the Sheriff and asked him to call me if any developments popped up.

GL and I made preliminary plans for him to represent me at the hearing.

Less than two weeks later, I received a call from Sheriff Benedict. He informed me that there would be a press release the next week announcing an agreement between the counties to issue non-resident licenses, and that I was welcome to apply anytime after May 1st, which I did.

Now, whether or not my actions played any role here is certainly up for debate. And, of course, this didn't really resolve the issue I was looking to correct, it just took away my legal standing. But I nonetheless think this revealed an important reality: the sheriffs are abundantly aware that they are behaving in an unlawful manner - they need to be challenged by someone willing to follow through. Unfortunately, very few non-residents are willing to do so - it's a lot easier to go to another county that follows the law. I think the only way this will get fixed is if they start to pull the same shit on residents.

[free]

Thank you for the above post. However, it has left me confused.

What is the nature of the agreement between these two Sheriffs and how does that interplay with their obligation to accept all applications and issue approval or denial within 45 days?