National Reciprocity - a question for people smarter than me

[GunLawyer001]

...and yet all of this pontificating is a waste of time...If you want the right results go to court. Having the Legislature argue this is just going to end up with more infringements. We need to be fighting this in COURT!

There have been a number of recent instances where taking cases to courts was worse than doing nothing, because the courts are just people. Bad cases, argued badly, produce terrible results. Erie gave us Footnote 9. McKown surprised us with the news that PA residents don't count as "people". Keyes taught us that a judge empowered to issue any necessary order is not empowered to issue an order that will actually do what the statute is for, restoring gun rights.

The Left understands this, and they cheat. They know how specific judges will rule before they even file a case, which is why Trump is being hamstrung by random Leftist judges in Hawaii and other reliably Left judges around the country.

[knight0334]

...and yet all of this pontificating is a waste of time...If you want the right results go to court. Having the Legislature argue this is just going to end up with more infringements. We need to be fighting this in COURT!

There is a very serious problem with using the courts to settle things. ...If you lose, you're screwed. And if you lose in front of SCOTUS, or respective state supreme court, your fucked for pretty much eternity. ....fucked with a 20" long 10" wide dildo with fish hooks sticking out, and not to mention the lube is replaced with broken glass.

Fixing things with legislative process is preferred above the courts.

And with the 2nd Amendment having been ruled a fundamental individual right(Heller), and incorporated via the 14th Amendment against the states and municipalities(McDonald), Congress has full power to force the states to honor our 2A rights. Congress can make law forcing the states to honor our rights, and if the states refuse, it empowers the federal government to use military power against the states to make them comply.

Now, if somehow we were to get 7-8 absolutely pro-gun Justices on the bench. ....maybe that might be the preferred option. But last I counted we're hovering around 4 pro-gun Justices, with a flipflopper Justice. And actually, we're probably around 3 pro-gun Justices because there isn't 4 required Justices voting to hear some of the cases that were put before them to settle.

[TonyF]

Fixing things in the legislature, is, by its very nature, a minefield of compromise. The judiciary at the highest level, is, for better or worse, a finality (or until the court is stacked with opposing, ideological members which could take decades).

Regarding states with training mandates, I used to teach the Utah non resident class and it was woefully inadequate. Did not mandate live fire training so there was literally nothing aside of lecture. I attended the Arizona non resident class at gunsite while there for another class. It was very well done but IIRC, it was gunsite's "spin" on what the curriculum needed to be. IOW, AZ allowed instructors to "add" things to the state's minimum required standard (so did Utah).

IMNSHO, state's arguing against national reciprocity based on their own (extremely limited) requirements are being completely disingenuous.

[God's Country]

If travel between the states is protected by the Privileges and Immunities clause of the Constitution, whereas one state is not allowed to discriminate against travellers from another state, AND possession of a firearm for self protection has been determined to be an individual right under Heller, why then is concealed carry between the states not protected by the Privileges and Immunities clause?

Heller is a joke. All it did was protect the rights to possess a firearm in the home. It left the door wide open for the states to decide which firearms are lawful to possess and to what extent they can be regulated outside the home. All it changed was Chicago and DC's all out ban on firearms possession within the cities. Nothing else changed.

SCOTUS only reaches broad sweeping decisions when it furthers the grasp of government.

The ownership and possession of firearms has been successfully ruled numerous times to be a heavily regulated right. Once we began to allow the government to strip the 2A for reasons, such as certain convictions (time served), we began travelling down that slippery slope of confiscation. Once we allow one group of people to be disarmed that argument will be used to disarm more and more sub groups of individuals.

This is why NR will NEVER happen IMO without so much regulation that it will be useless, or a SCOTUS ruling reversing a century of firearm discrimination. Not gonna happen.

[john9001]

All laws should be judged on constitutionality before it is passed into law but after it is law then it has to be challenged by a harmed party and then may or may not be reviewed by the super court and may or may not be overturned.

Some years ago the Florida super court over turned a law and a reporter asked a state legislator why they passed a illegal law and the legislator said "we pass allot of illegal laws here".

A government of the people, by the people and for the people never happened.

[ideaman]

Costello votes no b/c he doesn't want other CC'ers who are not at our level. Yet. I challenged him on that. "... show me the stats to prove your point. How many crimes did CC'ers from other states commit in PA or in their own state? PA already has reciprocity with at least 28 states. Show me the data of the states PA does not have reciprocity with that has a crime rate equal to or more than the cops. Most CC'ers crimes are being in 'gun free zone', not commiting a crime with a firearm and are far less crimes than the cops. Show me the crime stats of CC'ers in Nevada? We don't have a reciprocity with Nevada. They have 30 states. How many crimes did Nevada CC'ers do around th USA?

Waiting for your answers or excuses.

My addition: I just saw Wisconsin and Montana has 42 states. I got to ask Costello, why don't we have at least 42 states? Wisconsin and Montana would'nt put their citizens at risk. Apparently they believe CC'ers are a great asset for it's citizens.

[RenoV8]

The last time that I checked Congress enacted laws, not the Judicial branch.

The fight is in the courts...the courts are the venue to make sure the laws along with our rights are upheld...and yes, at times there is a conflict between the two. Getting the right cases in front of the right judges is where we will inevitably get the most bang for the buck. To have the legislature continue to infringe on a right which has already been defined, by multiple courts and SCOTUS needs to stop.

Either you look at the glass half empty or you look at the glass half full...one will define you approach as being proactive, the other reactive...time to go full blown proactive. Enough of the Bullshit!