Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
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    Mohnton, Pennsylvania
    (Berks County)
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    Default Re: Transfer to my 18 yo daughter

    Quote Originally Posted by knight0334 View Post
    Correct so long as she isn't in Philly and that there isn't a State of Emergency. ...on foot from her house to her destination and back, entirely on foot.
    Should not the americans with disabilities act make a medically required conveyance legal?

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
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    jersey shore, Pennsylvania
    (Lycoming County)
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    Default Re: Transfer to my 18 yo daughter

    Quote Originally Posted by GunLawyer001 View Post
    There is in no sense a "trade off", the record of Sale Database exists because there's a statute that authorizes it, it is NOT A PART OF PICS.

    I'm getting a little tired of the false meme that we need to kill PICS to get rid of the ROSD, it's as inane and deceptive as suggesting that we need to tighten up sales of guns at FFL's to prevent 16 year old drug dealers from shooting each other with stolen guns.
    I agree with you on this one Phil. I don't understand where this thinking that if we switch from pics, the state police are going to magically give up their database comes from. Nics, Pics, either way we'll still have Ros.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    DeepInTheWoods, Pennsylvania
    (Warren County)
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    Default Re: Transfer to my 18 yo daughter

    Quote Originally Posted by TotinMama View Post
    And that's my concern... She gets jammed up by a LEO who thinks it's illegal, and she has to jump through hoops. I didn't realize it would be such a difficult thing... Silly me.
    A. Having a gun in her possession that is NOT linked to her name / address may well be a good thing at some point in the future.


    2. CARRYING such a gun is not the same as having one.
    Per previous posts, a LTCF is almost a requirement to carrying and certainly is to carrying in a vehicle.

    21 is minimum age to have a LTCF. So, reasonably, at the age when she can carry, she can buy a gun she wants to carry.
    The cost of a carry gun is far less than the cost of unraveling a situation caused such as in your post.


    Thirdly, The reason you carry is to have a gun to use, if Bad Things Happen. If Bad Things Happen, the user WILL lose the gun for a while, possibly forever. Therefore, ONLY carry a gun you can afford to lose.


    That's the informed logic flow & conclusions from the cold, cold boondocks.
    American by BIRTH, Infidel by CHOICE

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Beautiful, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: Transfer to my 18 yo daughter

    The purpose of the gift wasn't for her to carry. It was too give her a gun to shoot at the range, either with us or by herself, and to become even more comfortable and proficient. When she moves into her own home she will have a means to protect herself, and a gun that will go bang every single time. Plus, she can easily clean it herself. When she turns 21 she's can buy whatever she'd like IF she decides to carry.

    My goal had always been to make her self sufficient, and that includes the ability to defend herself

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Douglassville, Pennsylvania
    (Berks County)
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    Default Re: Transfer to my 18 yo daughter

    There is nothing required to be done to gift / transfer ownership of a firearm to immediate family member. I am a widower and went through this a few years ago w my wife's firearms. If you want her to have a record of ownership, write her a homemade receipt.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    (Allegheny County)
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    Default Re: Transfer to my 18 yo daughter

    Quote Originally Posted by TotinMama View Post
    The purpose of the gift wasn't for her to carry. It was too give her a gun to shoot at the range, either with us or by herself, and to become even more comfortable and proficient. When she moves into her own home she will have a means to protect herself, and a gun that will go bang every single time. Plus, she can easily clean it herself. When she turns 21 she's can buy whatever she'd like IF she decides to carry.

    My goal had always been to make her self sufficient, and that includes the ability to defend herself

    In this case, I wouldn't be overly concerned with a lack of "official transfer".

    "Merry Christmas". Done.

    Having something typed/written to document the gifting may help, but if the main goal isn't "carry" then the single most possible potential issue is removed. (having a carry gun confiscated during a stop when the ownership record doesn't match the person carrying)

    The bonus would be a handgun that she owns that nobody (official) knows about.
    Last edited by Emptymag; December 21st, 2017 at 09:27 AM. Reason: stupid typo!

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    SE, Pennsylvania
    (Delaware County)
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    Default Re: Transfer to my 18 yo daughter

    Thanks Phil for the reply. It was my assumption (clearly incorrect) that the Pa State Police got the records of sale for their 'not a database' through the PICS system and that moving to NICS would stop that chain. Just for my education how do they get the info for the database? Is it directly from FFL's? Just trying to understand how the data moves along. Thanks for the education!



    Quote Originally Posted by GunLawyer001 View Post
    There is in no sense a "trade off", the record of Sale Database exists because there's a statute that authorizes it, it is NOT A PART OF PICS.

    I'm getting a little tired of the false meme that we need to kill PICS to get rid of the ROSD, it's as inane and deceptive as suggesting that we need to tighten up sales of guns at FFL's to prevent 16 year old drug dealers from shooting each other with stolen guns.
    Last edited by skylark; December 20th, 2017 at 08:57 PM.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Levittown, Pennsylvania
    (Bucks County)
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    Default Re: Transfer to my 18 yo daughter

    Dad bought me a Ruger Mark I target pistol when I was 18. 18 was the minimum age in Penna in the 1950s. A year later, I was in the Army in Georgia, and he mailed it down to me. Then I mailed it back home or carried it home on leave...I forget which.

    But there was so much gun crime going on, they had to change all that. I lived in the USA as a youngster...a USA that was meant to be, and by rights, should still be.

    I believe PSP ROS dates back to 1923....long before NICS, PICS or hoops.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
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    Bucks, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: Transfer to my 18 yo daughter

    Quote Originally Posted by skylark View Post
    Thanks Phil for the reply. It was my assumption (clearly incorrect) that the Pa State Police got the records of sale for their 'not a database' through the PICS system and that moving to NICS would stop that chain. Just for my education how do they get the info for the database? Is it directly from FFL's? Just trying to understand how the data moves along. Thanks for the education!
    When you buy guns from an FFL, you always fill out the 4473. In Pennsylvania, when you buy a handgun you also fill out the Record of Sale form, which the dealer sends off to the PSP as required by PA state law which says:

    (b) Duty of seller.--No licensed importer, licensed manufacturer or licensed dealer shall sell or deliver any firearm to another person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer or licensed collector, until the conditions of subsection (a) have been satisfied and until he has:

    (1) For purposes of a firearm as defined in section 6102 (relating to definitions), obtained a completed application/record of sale from the potential buyer or transferee to be filled out in triplicate, the original copy to be sent to the Pennsylvania State Police, postmarked via first class mail, within 14 days of the sale, one copy to be retained by the licensed importer, licensed manufacturer or licensed dealer for a period of 20 years and one copy to be provided to the purchaser or transferee.
    . . .


    Getting rid of PICS and moving to NICS wouldn't do squat to eliminate this requirement. On the other hand, repealing this requirement (by removing that paragraph from the statute) doesn't require the elimination of PICS.

    The Legislature doesn't have much support for replacing our locally-controlled PICS and giving that power to the FBI under NICS. On the other hand, lots of folks dislike the "registration". So people who hate PICS and hate the State Police try to mislead the public into thinking that we have to eliminate PICS in order to get rid of the "database that isn't registration".

    You can look at the entire section, sec. 6111 in Title 18, and see what changes would need to be made by the Legislature and the Governor, in order to eliminate the Record of Sale form. Once they stop updating the database, cops will figure out that it's pointless to fish for violations without some basis to believe the gun was stolen.
    Attorney Phil Kline, AKA gunlawyer001@gmail.com
    Ce sac n'est pas un jouet.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    SE, Pennsylvania
    (Delaware County)
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    Default Re: Transfer to my 18 yo daughter

    Thanks for the excellent detailed explanation. Makes perfect sense but disappointing that it’s so deeply embedded in the system. Appreciate you taking the time to respond.


    Quote Originally Posted by GunLawyer001 View Post
    When you buy guns from an FFL, you always fill out the 4473. In Pennsylvania, when
    you buy a handgun you also fill out the Record of Sale form, which the dealer sends off to the PSP as required by PA state law which says:

    (b) Duty of seller.--No licensed importer, licensed manufacturer or licensed dealer shall sell or deliver any firearm to another person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer or licensed collector, until the conditions of subsection (a) have been satisfied and until he has:

    (1) For purposes of a firearm as defined in section 6102 (relating to definitions), obtained a completed application/record of sale from the potential buyer or transferee to be filled out in triplicate, the original copy to be sent to the Pennsylvania State Police, postmarked via first class mail, within 14 days of the sale, one copy to be retained by the licensed importer, licensed manufacturer or licensed dealer for a period of 20 years and one copy to be provided to the purchaser or transferee.
    . . .


    Getting rid of PICS and moving to NICS wouldn't do squat to eliminate this requirement. On the other hand, repealing this requirement (by removing that paragraph from the statute) doesn't require the elimination of PICS.

    The Legislature doesn't have much support for replacing our locally-controlled PICS and giving that power to the FBI under NICS. On the other hand, lots of folks dislike the "registration". So people who hate PICS and hate the State Police try to mislead the public into thinking that we have to eliminate PICS in order to get rid of the "database that isn't registration".

    You can look at the entire section, sec. 6111 in Title 18, and see what changes would need to be made by the Legislature and the Governor, in order to eliminate the Record of Sale form. Once they stop updating the database, cops will figure out that it's pointless to fish for violations without some basis to believe the gun was stolen.

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