Mossberg Shockwave

**PAMedic=F|A=** · November 4th, 2019, 02:16 AM

Originally Posted by Mosinshooter762

I am sort of getting why one might consider this a 6102 firearm but with a lot of questions. If it is considered a shotgun with a barrel less than 18 inches under Pennsylvania law than why could it not also be considered a Section 908 Prohibited Offensive Weapon?

§ 908. Prohibited offensive weapons.
(c) Definitions.--As used in this section, the following words and phrases shall have the meanings given to them in this subsection:
"Firearm." Any weapon which is designed to or may readily be converted to expel any projectile by the action of an explosive or the frame or receiver of any such weapon.
"Offensive weapons." Any bomb, grenade, machine gun, sawed-off shotgun with a barrel less than 18 inches, firearm specially made or specially adapted for concealment or silent discharge, any blackjack, sandbag, metal knuckles, dagger, knife, razor or cutting instrument, the blade of which is exposed in an automatic way by switch, push-button, spring mechanism, or otherwise, any stun gun, stun baton, taser or other electronic or electric weapon or other implement for the infliction of serious bodily injury which serves no common lawful purpose.

The highlighted part is what matters. It isn't sawed-off. It isn't changed from the manufacturer design. It is a shotgun, that happens to have a barrel length of less then 18 inches.

Now, if you shortened it, yourself, then you would be breaking the law.

**Mosinshooter762** · November 9th, 2019, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by PAMedic=F|A=

§ 908. Prohibited offensive weapons.
(c) Definitions.--As used in this section, the following words and phrases shall have the meanings given to them in this subsection:
"Firearm." Any weapon which is designed to or may readily be converted to expel any projectile by the action of an explosive or the frame or receiver of any such weapon.
"Offensive weapons." Any bomb, grenade, machine gun, sawed-off shotgun with a barrel less than 18 inches, firearm specially made or specially adapted for concealment or silent discharge, any blackjack, sandbag, metal knuckles, dagger, knife, razor or cutting instrument, the blade of which is exposed in an automatic way by switch, push-button, spring mechanism, or otherwise, any stun gun, stun baton, taser or other electronic or electric weapon or other implement for the infliction of serious bodily injury which serves no common lawful purpose.

The highlighted part is what matters. It isn't sawed-off. It isn't changed from the manufacturer design. It is a shotgun, that happens to have a barrel length of less then 18 inches.

Now, if you shortened it, yourself, then you would be breaking the law.

This assumes for one that no manufacturer is reducing the barrel length at all in the process of making the pistol grip ‘shotgun’.

**knight0334** · November 9th, 2019, 11:45 AM

You should have a bigger worry that the ATF changes their mind and considers it an AOW. ...especially with the fact that 26" isn't a requirement in law.

The PSP's opinion would be the least of my concerns.

**USMC3531** · November 9th, 2019, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by knight0334

You should have a bigger worry that the ATF changes their mind and considers it an AOW. ...especially with the fact that 26" isn't a requirement in law.

The PSP's opinion would be the least of my concerns.

Or a destructive device because the bore is over half inch, and has no particular "sporting purpose"

**JustinR** · November 9th, 2019, 11:34 PM

Originally Posted by USMC3531

Or a destructive device because the bore is over half inch, and has no particular "sporting purpose"

Sure it does, they're great for rabbit hunting with a red dot. Don't have the barrel or stock hanging on briars and underbrush.

**Mosinshooter762** · November 10th, 2019, 05:00 PM

At least with the ATF there is guidance, whether correct or incorrect, that these are currently Title 1 firearms. Yes, it is true that ATF could change on a dime and reclassify this as a Destructive Device (or as an NFA AOW) like what was done with the Armsel Striker 12. At least as to the Federal Government one can probably muster up some type of due process reasonable reliance based defense against a prosecution for possession prior to an announcement by ATF or a court as to a change to interpretation or enforcement. There is no such guidance from the PSP that I am aware of that these are not considered a Prohibited Offensive Weapon, either because that they are not a sawed off shotgun or other implement for the infliction of serious bodily injury which serves no common lawful purpose. I was concerned to read that case law in Pennsylvania seems to indicate that weapons that have the appearance of an enumerated Prohibited Offensive Weapon are also prohibited. I want these to be legal but I am very concerned about seeing these as any more than a collectors item until the legal risks in Pennsylvania are resolved.

**raxar** · November 10th, 2019, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by Mosinshooter762

At least with the ATF there is guidance, whether correct or incorrect, that these are currently Title 1 firearms. Yes, it is true that ATF could change on a dime and reclassify this as a Destructive Device (or as an NFA AOW) like what was done with the Armsel Striker 12. At least as to the Federal Government one can probably muster up some type of due process reasonable reliance based defense against a prosecution for possession prior to an announcement by ATF or a court as to a change to interpretation or enforcement. There is no such guidance from the PSP that I am aware of that these are not considered a Prohibited Offensive Weapon, either because that they are not a sawed off shotgun or other implement for the infliction of serious bodily injury which serves no common lawful purpose. I was concerned to read that case law in Pennsylvania seems to indicate that weapons that have the appearance of an enumerated Prohibited Offensive Weapon are also prohibited. I want these to be legal but I am very concerned about seeing these as any more than a collectors item until the legal risks in Pennsylvania are resolved.

Considering the number of stores that carry them, and the number that have been sold I think that kind of case would be quickly thrown out.

**Mr_Gixxer** · November 10th, 2019, 05:17 PM

Originally Posted by raxar

Considering the number of stores that carry them, and the number that have been sold I think that kind of case would be quickly thrown out.

Seriously this^.
Maybe we should keep asking about them and writing letters until we get them banned. Let it rest! If you want one buy one. If you don't want one don't buy one.

**Mosinshooter762** · November 10th, 2019, 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by Mr_Gixxer

Seriously this^.
Maybe we should keep asking about them and writing letters until we get them banned. Let it rest! If you want one buy one. If you don't want one don't buy one.

I agree with this as to the ATF as there is already much in writing about the legality of this. Once you have an answer from the agency, stop asking. As to Pennsylvania, to each his own on whether you want something in writing about the legality of this.

**Mr_Gixxer** · November 10th, 2019, 05:31 PM

Originally Posted by Mosinshooter762

I agree with this as to the ATF as there is already much in writing about the legality of this. Once you have an answer from the agency, stop asking. As to Pennsylvania, to each his own on whether you want something in writing about the legality of this.

The legality of what? Something you can buy off of the wall at almost any gun shop in the state? I wouldn't worry about it, but if you are there's nothing saying you have to report a lost or stolen gun.