Restoring rights

[knight0334]

Back to a question the OP had. Even though you got a pardon, IIRC, you will still need to get the conviction expunged from all your records. Even with the pardon, the PICS will probably come back denied if the records aren't expunged. Then you would need to do the challenge form and probably give a copy of the pardon but even that doesn't mean the PSP will wipe your record. You might check into getting a UPIN (Unique Personal Identification Number) and when you buy a firearm, tell the FFL so he can talk directly to a PICs operator to give them that information.

This^^^^

Without an expungement the conviction is still on your record even though it has been pardoned. You could appeal every denial you get, but they will become a tiresome process each time you go to purchase a firearm.

And with the conviction still on your record a sheriff will easily see it should you apply for a LTCF. With him being able to see it, he could deny you on the character clause even though it was pardoned. If he isn't able to see it, and doesn't otherwise know about the conviction, he would have no reason to deny you.

[Charlierock79]

Thank you for the answers very informative....I will proceed with expungement if the governor signs the papers.

[DaveIam]

It sounds like you went through the same process as my wife did years ago, that was a long 5 years and a well worth it $5K. Went it was all said and done her record was expunged. I would ask your lawyer if thats how it will play out for you. We didn't have to go through another hearing or anything to go from a pardon to expungement, it was all part of the same process.

[Didnotcomply89]

You need to talk to a lawyer. Contact gunlawyer on here, also known as Phil. That question is far beyond my scope.

[sontavas]

I had my pardon signed by the Governor last November. The whole process took about 5 years. My public hearing was in April and he signed the document in November (about 8 months). I did not use a lawyer for any for any of the pardon process.

About 2 months after I received the pardon I attempted to purchase a shotgun and was denied. Now, once you have the pardon you are no longer a "prohibited person", so there is no legal ramification from the denial, but it is still a pain in the rear. You need to get an expungement in the county that you were convicted in. I talked to some lawyers and that process costs about $1,500 (plus the filing fee which which depend on how many docket numbers you are trying to expunge). I filled out the paperwork myself and did not use a lawyer, which saved me $1,500. The expungement took about six weeks (which is faster than normal). After the expungement paperwork went through, all of your information is cleared from the PA system (you can check by reviewing the court search website). However, it can take a while for it to clear the FBI system. I ran 3 FBI checks on myself during the process to see how long it took to get removed. My FBI records were cleared after about 30 days from the date of the expungement (which again is faster than normal).

I am not a lawyer, but that is the process that I used and that worked for me. If you have any more questions, feel free to PM me.

[GunLawyer001]

I should point out that here in Pennsylvania, in practice you get one shot at a pardon.

Sure, the statute says you can re-apply after a denial. But the Board keeps a copy of your application, and whatever you screwed up the first time will be reviewed the second time. It's like sour milk, once you reject it and shove it to the back of the fridge, you aren't going to drink it later.

The Board publishes statistics of the number of people who apply each year, the number who are rejected outright, the number who get hearings, and the number of hearings that result in recommendations for pardons. It's on their website. The odds are not good, especially without assistance. You have to look at a few years at a time, because applications are held over multiple years, and Governors sign them later, so some years have very few signings and other years have more. But they seem to average around 85% failures, year to year. Last year (2016) shows 521 applications, 78 signed pardons. 2015 had 503 applications, 107 pardons.

It depends on how important you value getting your right to touch a gun back for the rest of your life.

[sontavas]

Gunlawyer,

I agree that the numbers on the website are helpful. I was a bit of a fanatic about the whole pardon process myself. I poured over those statistics almost obsessively. I actually had a spreadsheet that I would update any time the numbers would update so I could keep track of the statistics and see what the trends were. Once my application was approved by the board, I would review the Governors weekly published schedule to see if there was any information about "pardon reviews". I also called the PABOP twice a month to get updates (they were actually very nice).

I am sure that your chances go down dramatically after your first attempt. To hire a lawyer or not is up to the individual. I did not and it worked out well for me. However, I am sure there are folks who were denied who are kicking themselves in the rear for not shelling out the money (I know what I would be). The one thing that I would recommend, whether you hire a lawyer or not, is to do your due diligence. At my public hearing I was shocked how many folks rolled in with zero preparation. There was a guy in ripped jeans and a T-Shirt (he was denied). There was a guy who blatantly lied about not having subsequent convictions (he was denied). I could go on and on, some people were just not ready and virtually all of them were denied.

[GunLawyer001]

Gunlawyer,

I agree that the numbers on the website are helpful. I was a bit of a fanatic about the whole pardon process myself. I poured over those statistics almost obsessively. I actually had a spreadsheet that I would update any time the numbers would update so I could keep track of the statistics and see what the trends were. Once my application was approved by the board, I would review the Governors weekly published schedule to see if there was any information about "pardon reviews". I also called the PABOP twice a month to get updates (they were actually very nice).

I am sure that your chances go down dramatically after your first attempt. To hire a lawyer or not is up to the individual. I did not and it worked out well for me. However, I am sure there are folks who were denied who are kicking themselves in the rear for not shelling out the money (I know what I would be). The one thing that I would recommend, whether you hire a lawyer or not, is to do your due diligence. At my public hearing I was shocked how many folks rolled in with zero preparation. There was a guy in ripped jeans and a T-Shirt (he was denied). There was a guy who blatantly lied about not having subsequent convictions (he was denied). I could go on and on, some people were just not ready and virtually all of them were denied.

I had one client meet me at the Rotunda wearing jeans and a polo shirt. We got him a pardon anyway. He really needed one. Governor Corbett (he was AG at the time) asked us some unexpected questions at that hearing, which could easily have been fatal to our chances, but we were prepared and dealt with them.

[sontavas]

^^ Nice!
I too was surprised at some of the questions, they certainly try to catch you off guard.

I called a few layers at the beginning of the pardon process. Many listed pardons as an area of expertise, but it was obvious they were not very familiar with the process. When you have to correct a lawyer on how the process works, its a bad sign. I also reviewed a lot of questions to lawyers on Avvo, half of the information there give by lawyers is just blatantly incorrect.

You sound like you have been through the process many times. If anyone is looking to hire a lawyer, I certainly hope that they talk with you first instead of some of the other guys out there.

[Walleye Hunter]

I had one client meet me at the Rotunda wearing jeans and a polo shirt. We got him a pardon anyway. He really needed one. Governor Corbett (he was AG at the time) asked us some unexpected questions at that hearing, which could easily have been fatal to our chances, but we were prepared and dealt with them.

Curve balls to catch you off guard and see how you field them. I wonder how many shoot their mouths off and ruin it for themselves even with a lawyer at their side trying to steer them straight.