Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #31
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    Default Re: Police Crimes out number CCW Data

    You can find “hypocritical authoritative pricks” in any profession. It shouldn’t define an entire profession. It is up to individuals to band together and “lobby” representatives to support pro individual gun rights decisions. Supporting the NRA, your state gun owners association and local sportsman’s club is the best way to combat those who would like to place roadblocks to your ability to defend yourself and your family.

    Eventually, it looks like some form of national reciprocity will be in place. There’s probably more debate going on between those who believe the 2nd amendment is their carry permit and those who believe the state has a right to require satisfaction of certian requirements. It’s a good thing that court decisions have made this debate possible.

  2. #32
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    Default Re: Police Crimes out number CCW Data

    Quote Originally Posted by Williamsmith View Post
    You can find “hypocritical authoritative pricks” in any profession. It shouldn’t define an entire profession. It is up to individuals to band together and “lobby” representatives to support pro individual gun rights decisions. Supporting the NRA, your state gun owners association and local sportsman’s club is the best way to combat those who would like to place roadblocks to your ability to defend yourself and your family.

    Eventually, it looks like some form of national reciprocity will be in place. There’s probably more debate going on between those who believe the 2nd amendment is their carry permit and those who believe the state has a right to require satisfaction of certian requirements. It’s a good thing that court decisions have made this debate possible.
    Again, no where did I say all. Nor did I say define, but if one denies that there is an over abundance of power hungry, arrogant, Constitution defiling police, simply go to you tube, and type police crime into the search area.


    One more thing I'll add in regards to proffessions.
    In most professions, one doesn't swear an oath to uphold the Constitution. Most professions don't have one wielding the weight of the state, empowered by the state, enforcing unconstitutional laws at the point of a gun.
    That's why it is so egregious when police abuse their authority.
    Last edited by pacodelahoya; December 16th, 2017 at 11:29 AM.
    Go sell crazy some where else, we're all stocked up here.


    Political power grows from the muzzle of a gun.

  3. #33
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    Default Re: Police Crimes out number CCW Data

    Quote Originally Posted by pacodelahoya View Post
    Again, no where did I say all. Nor did I say define, but if one denies that there is an over abundance of power hungry, arrogant, Constitution defiling police, simply go to you tube, and type police crime into the search area.


    One more thing I'll add in regards to proffessions.
    In most professions, one doesn't swear an oath to uphold the Constitution. Most professions don't have one wielding the weight of the state, empowered by the state, enforcing unconstitutional laws at the point of a gun.
    That's why it is so egregious when police abuse their authority.
    Type “police heroes” into the YouTube search and you’ll get plenty of evidence that police officers serve honorably and faithfully and often lay down their lives in the performance of their duty. As can be seen here in a sample representative of a PSP Trooper.



    You’ll find exceptions in all professions, police officers are no different.

  4. #34
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    Default Re: Police Crimes out number CCW Data

    Quote Originally Posted by Williamsmith View Post
    Type “police heroes” into the YouTube search and you’ll get plenty of evidence that police officers serve honorably and faithfully and often lay down their lives in the performance of their duty. As can be seen here in a sample representative of a PSP Trooper.



    You’ll find exceptions in all professions, police officers are no different.
    Agian the difference being when people in other professions do poor work or disobey the rules of their employment, they generally aren't ruining other peoples lives. They aren't violating on a daily basis the very laws they have sworn to uphold


    DUI check points, Saftey check check points both unconstitutional.
    No knock warrants, unconstitutional.
    Search and seziure and asset forfeiture without a trial, unconstitutional.
    Enforcing any firearms possession law, unconstitutional.

    All the bravery and heroism in the world doesn't excuse violating the oath to the constitutuon.

    Not to discount the bravery needed to run towards danger, it can be argued that that is simply doing the job they voluntarily signed up for. Just as tragic as when a firefighter dies in the line if duty, they signed on knowing full well the possible consequences.

    I am a commercial truck driver, do you think it it takes bravery to drive an 80,000 lb truck on the Pa turnpike up and down the mountains in 18 inches of snow and ice?

    Do some research, cops don't even make the top ten dangerous jobs, my job is #7.

    I deliver in Cambden , Elizabeth, Newark NJ without a gun.
    I have deliverered in Baltimore, Detroit, DC, oxon hill Md, Cleveland, Columbus, in the wee hours of the night, without a gun.
    Cops in most of those cities won't approach a vehicle without backup.
    Just saying, being brave doesn't nullify doing wrong.
    Go sell crazy some where else, we're all stocked up here.


    Political power grows from the muzzle of a gun.

  5. #35
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    Default Re: Police Crimes out number CCW Data

    Quote Originally Posted by pacodelahoya View Post
    Agian the difference being when people in other professions do poor work or disobey the rules of their employment, they generally aren't ruining other peoples lives. They aren't violating on a daily basis the very laws they have sworn to uphold


    DUI check points, Saftey check check points both unconstitutional.
    No knock warrants, unconstitutional.
    Search and seziure and asset forfeiture without a trial, unconstitutional.
    Enforcing any firearms possession law, unconstitutional.

    All the bravery and heroism in the world doesn't excuse violating the oath to the constitutuon.

    Not to discount the bravery needed to run towards danger, it can be argued that that is simply doing the job they voluntarily signed up for. Just as tragic as when a firefighter dies in the line if duty, they signed on knowing full well the possible consequences.

    I am a commercial truck driver, do you think it it takes bravery to drive an 80,000 lb truck on the Pa turnpike up and down the mountains in 18 inches of snow and ice?

    Do some research, cops don't even make the top ten dangerous jobs, my job is #7.

    I deliver in Cambden , Elizabeth, Newark NJ without a gun.
    I have deliverered in Baltimore, Detroit, DC, oxon hill Md, Cleveland, Columbus, in the wee hours of the night, without a gun.
    Cops in most of those cities won't approach a vehicle without backup.
    Just saying, being brave doesn't nullify doing wrong.
    I agree. There are plenty of dangerous jobs. You work for compensation and your family is relying on you to pay the bills so you do things you’d rather not. Things that are not illegal but they may be against your better judgement. Like things the boss requires you to do....drive the turnpike in dangerous conditions or deliver in urban combat zones.

    Police officers are no different. They aren’t required to run towards danger, not by the courts. They feel obligated by their sense of duty. Without them, the general rule of law which makes it even possible to deliver in the urban combat zones, would break down. Nothing would get delivered. Operating in a society without rule of law without a firearm would be insanity.

    So police officers participate in DUI checkpoints and Motor Carrier Safety Assistance Programs......where the constitutionality is defined by the way in which it is done. Same with no knock warrants. There are circumstances the courts have ruled permit it. Search and seizure has its exigency exceptions...asset forfeiture it’s standards. And the firearms morass.....

    Let’s just say there are a lot of situations a police officer has to make decisions about that are just like driving on the turnpike or delivering in NJ without a gun. Somebody has to pay the bills.

    When you are driving that 80,000 lb commercial motor vehicle on slippery interstate highways.....you are putting other people’s lives at risk also. When a police officer decides he has the authority to take someone’s freedom away and detain them, arrest them or take their life.....that’s risky business. Mistakes are made. But for all the interactions between police and citizens, the large majority of them are within reason and professionally handled.

    In the context of the OP.....I think it’s counterproductive to assert one group is more prone to criminal acts than another when the goal is to get all acceptable reciprocity. Especially on a forum where firearms ownership is a commonality.

  6. #36
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    Default Re: Police Crimes out number CCW Data

    Any one know the training qualification for a CC in 50 states? Those police organizations fearing other states CC'er qualifications don't meet the levels of their states and therefore more dangerous. Yet. the stats doesn't bear that out. CC'ers are more law abiding and keep in mind, all shootings etc. are investigated and if found unlawful, you go to jail and lose your guns. At least the CC'ers get background checks.

    Odd, no problems with CC'ers for their state, but every other state are dangerous. How about listing what training is required so those who want to CC in their states will get that training to meet it. I'm betting they don't give a shit!

  7. #37
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    Default Re: Police Crimes out number CCW Data

    Quote Originally Posted by pacodelahoya View Post


    DUI check points, Saftey check check points both unconstitutional.
    No knock warrants, unconstitutional.
    Search and seziure and asset forfeiture without a trial, unconstitutional.
    wrong.

    Those three things Jeff Sessions full wants to enforce and implement. The guy is a whackaloon!

  8. #38
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    Default Re: Police Crimes out number CCW Data

    I fully support CC in all 50 states, and if I have to sit in a 5 or 10 hour safety course to achieve it, so be it. I hate going into Maryland or Jersey if I am carrying, I have to pull over disassemble my firearm and lock it into 3 different places to not end up in jail.

  9. #39
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    Default Re: Police Crimes out number CCW Data

    Quote Originally Posted by DaFunkyOne View Post
    I fully support CC in all 50 states, and if I have to sit in a 5 or 10 hour safety course to achieve it, so be it.
    What happens when those mandatory training courses cost $5000/year to maintain your status as a CCW holder? Doesn't that affect the poor negatively?

    I hate going into Maryland or Jersey if I am carrying, I have to pull over disassemble my firearm and lock it into 3 different places to not end up in jail.
    Well, good luck with that, hope you have an attorney on retainer.
    Rules are written in the stone,
    Break the rules and you get no bones,
    all you get is ridicule, laughter,
    and a trip to the house of pain.

  10. #40
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    Default Re: Police Crimes out number CCW Data

    Quote Originally Posted by streaker69 View Post
    What happens when those mandatory training courses cost $5000/year to maintain your status as a CCW holder? Doesn't that affect the poor negatively?



    Well, good luck with that, hope you have an attorney on retainer.
    Well, I think you're reaching on that $5000 thing... However, nothing in the world is free, especially our rights.. so if something like that were to be implemented we have to fight back to make people understand that our rights shouldn't be infringed because of cost... but then again most of the 2A supporters always vote for the right and they have been screwing the poor guy for years but they don't see it.

    This federal CCWP issue that is in congress... has anyone reached out to see what it would really take to make it pass. I have floated a biennial safety course idea to my rep... a simple 5 hour-10 hour course that is recognized by proper parties. the reasonable cost part is if and when it ever comes to fruition.


    and to your other comment, don't need an attorney if I always pull over and disassmble the firearm per each state requirement. Since I tend to glide into Maryland quite frequently, I just bring my lock case and secure the pisotl in there and lock it in my floor compartment of my truck, and keep the magazine int he glovebox which is all maryland requires.
    I am a 2nd amendment supporting registered Democrat! - so Eat it!

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