throw out of state ccw holders in jail

[R L Suehr]

With the understanding that "Ignorance of the law is no excuse (unless you're a cop tasked with enforcing the laws)":

Not all legal gun carriers are fully versed in the nuances of firearm law, even the laws that directly affect them. Someone who never thought about guns until being robbed and then getting one for self protection might not realize that the laws differ because the laws never came up in conversation before. Maybe a young single mother of 2 got a gun and training - and a license, because she knew she needed one - and thought she had met all the requirements to carry (see "Shaneen Allen"). I see plenty of people commenting on national articles who insist that licensed CCW holders aren't the problem because of the hours of training they need to go through to get licensed - obviously not realizing that *some* states don't have such requirements - so not every one knows every thing.

A non-firearm example: in PA the default speed limit for an un-posted rural area is 55mph, for un-posted business/residential it's 35mph. In NJ those are 50 and 25. Do you think every PA driver who travels to NJ knows this? (I'm gonna leave my tin-foil hat alone and not suggest they made it different on purpose just to get the ticket fees...) Do you think every NJ driver who travels to PA knows (hint: given the number of NJ drivers clogging up the fast lanes, I'm gonna say "no")?

Not all gun owners are "2A folks". Not everyone who posts on social media is "1A folk". Some people live their lives believing the laws they grew up with are the laws everywhere, because we have federal documents indicating such, or just because it wouldn't occur to them that there would be a reason for there to be a difference. Poofa members ARE 2A folks, and the misinformation here is painful at times - why would you think John (or Jane) Q. Public would consider the need to do more research when they already "know" what the laws are? If I were to read the Constitution (I have) and the Bill of Rights (ditto) I would expect that "shall not be infringed" means what it says, and that any laws to the contrary (say, from NJ) were facially unconstitutional and therefore null and void - so why would I need to research any other laws?

My 2¢

I'll add to this anecdotally. I'm kinda known as the "gun guy" at work and amongst my friends. I get legal questions all the time from people who own guns, sometimes lots of them, and have very little clue about PA laws. Other states laws are completely foriegn to them and don't even enter their mind. It's fairly common from my experience.

As was said above, sometimes I think we forget that here on pafoa we have lots of people who know their shit very well. We have actual attorneys that frequently post and a myriad of members who can quote and cite firearm laws from memory. Out in the general public that's probably about as frequent as an open carrier. You might see a couple a year, but the vast majority of people don't think about laws in the same way we do here.

[lts1ow]

With the understanding that "Ignorance of the law is no excuse (unless you're a cop tasked with enforcing the laws)":

Not all legal gun carriers are fully versed in the nuances of firearm law, even the laws that directly affect them. Someone who never thought about guns until being robbed and then getting one for self protection might not realize that the laws differ because the laws never came up in conversation before. Maybe a young single mother of 2 got a gun and training - and a license, because she knew she needed one - and thought she had met all the requirements to carry (see "Shaneen Allen"). I see plenty of people commenting on national articles who insist that licensed CCW holders aren't the problem because of the hours of training they need to go through to get licensed - obviously not realizing that *some* states don't have such requirements - so not every one knows every thing.

A non-firearm example: in PA the default speed limit for an un-posted rural area is 55mph, for un-posted business/residential it's 35mph. In NJ those are 50 and 25. Do you think every PA driver who travels to NJ knows this? (I'm gonna leave my tin-foil hat alone and not suggest they made it different on purpose just to get the ticket fees...) Do you think every NJ driver who travels to PA knows (hint: given the number of NJ drivers clogging up the fast lanes, I'm gonna say "no")?

Not all gun owners are "2A folks". Not everyone who posts on social media is "1A folk". Some people live their lives believing the laws they grew up with are the laws everywhere, because we have federal documents indicating such, or just because it wouldn't occur to them that there would be a reason for there to be a difference. Poofa members ARE 2A folks, and the misinformation here is painful at times - why would you think John (or Jane) Q. Public would consider the need to do more research when they already "know" what the laws are? If I were to read the Constitution (I have) and the Bill of Rights (ditto) I would expect that "shall not be infringed" means what it says, and that any laws to the contrary (say, from NJ) were facially unconstitutional and therefore null and void - so why would I need to research any other laws?

My 2¢

Excellent response, and please don't take my comments are arguing with you.

Perhaps, well, most likely I have very jaded glasses being born and raised in the PRNJ. As some judge said in the trial of a fellow 2A person, gun owners are at their own peril in NJ so I have tried my best to understand and follow the law. Having such a laid back outlook towards the law regarding firearms is a shocker to me But I can definitely see where you are coming from.

[Sgt.K]

Excellent response, and please don't take my comments are arguing with you.

Perhaps, well, most likely I have very jaded glasses being born and raised in the PRNJ. As some judge said in the trial of a fellow 2A person, gun owners are at their own peril in NJ so I have tried my best to understand and follow the law. Having such a laid back outlook towards the law regarding firearms is a shocker to me But I can definitely see where you are coming from.

No offense taken.

You were presenting an attitude... wrong word, let's go with "way of thinking"... that comes from living in fear of your overlords and seeing what the consequences are when you displease them, and so assuming that everyone faces life in the same way. Here in free America - where our gun laws don't start with "it's all illegal, except..." - ignorance of the law isn't usually as painful, and people can assume that everyone faces life in the same way.

It's one reason travel is good - getting to see how different cultures understand the world around them, and therefore getting a better understanding of your own world. It doesn't always require a plane trip to experience a vast difference...

[ShooterInPA1]

I live a few miles from the dreaded NJ border. If I miss an exit by accident, I am an instant criminal.

How is this NOT cruel.and unusual punishment?

Name one other thing in life where you are criminalized for making a simple error.

[scruff]

I live a few miles from the dreaded NJ border. If I miss an exit by accident, I am an instant criminal.

How is this NOT cruel.and unusual punishment?

Name one other thing in life where you are criminalized for making a simple error.

Don't worry, we'll get you out. Let's think of laws we can use to jail NJ residents. Then we can do prisoner swaps.

[scruff]

I'll add to this anecdotally. I'm kinda known as the "gun guy" at work and amongst my friends. I get legal questions all the time from people who own guns, sometimes lots of them, and have very little clue about PA laws. Other states laws are completely foriegn to them and don't even enter their mind. It's fairly common from my experience.

As was said above, sometimes I think we forget that here on pafoa we have lots of people who know their shit very well. We have actual attorneys that frequently post and a myriad of members who can quote and cite firearm laws from memory. Out in the general public that's probably about as frequent as an open carrier. You might see a couple a year, but the vast majority of people don't think about laws in the same way we do here.

That's for sure. My stepmother has relatives in Maryland. She and my dad go down there every year for Thanksgiving. I just found out that my dad has been unloading his gun and locking it in the trunk when they go, thinking that that's good enough to not get arrested. He knows just enough about FOPA to be dangerous.

I've always thought that laws should be invalid if they're so complex that your average Congressman can't properly explain the details. They'd fail miserably on our complicated gun laws.

[gghbi]

Don't worry, we'll get you out. Let's think of laws we can use to jail NJ residents. Then we can do prisoner swaps.

I can vote for that idea! The only problem is they may not want theirs back. Once they find out we will house and feed them, there could be a rush.

[scruff]

I can vote for that idea! The only problem is they may not want theirs back. Once they find out we will house and feed them, there could be a rush.

Oh, I didn't consider that they might not want them back. We better arrest flaming libs, not conservatives who they'd rather see gone anyway.

How about a law making it illegal to harass an open carrier? Then it would be "Constitution motherf*cker, and you're under arrest!" Convict them, put them on a prison bus, and trade them at the border.

[Manxdriver]

I hate to say it, but perhaps it is time to force people to wear 'markers'. Identify the communists among us and remove barriers to treating them like the mentally deficient burdens that they are. Yes, I know Hitler made the Jews wear a Star of David, but he did it to Jews, actual productive members of society. People of value. I'm talking about New Jersey and New York residents and other communists. You know, pieces of human dog crap.

[Statkowski]

Well, when ABC News has an article on it that's not "Oh my God, the sky is falling", perhaps New Jersey will be forced to change.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/p...-laws-51987669